ZF Mathers ClearCommand Shifting Malfunction

[tim@interactivedev.com]

I have a 2000 55' Hatteras sportfish with zf mathers clearcommand and a pair of CAT 3412-e.

Twice recently, while having control at my bridge station (tournament-style control heads 512-1s) and idling in neutral at the dock, my starboard side has shifted into reverse on it's own.

I had a local ZF certified tech come out and he said that the voltage at the neutral detent was very close the voltage required to shift into reverse. He made some adjustments to the control head and tried to leave, claiming that it would be fine.

Fortunately, I convinced him to stay for an "engines on" test; moving the starboard lever to the forward detent shifted to forward with greatly elevated RPMs - around 1100 RPM (should be 550 as we were in slow vessel mode). After plugging in his meter, he decide on more adjustments.

After a second round, he said that no further adjustments would be required - any incorrect RPMs would be an engine problem and not a control head problem (nonsense). After a very confusing and heated conversation, I asked him to leave. Now, my starboard side shifts into forward a bit before the detent and idles about 50 RPMs higher than port.

Both sides operate properly when the tower station has control.

Following the "adjustment", I found a 2014 maintenance log record stating that the starboard control head was "sent in for possible repair of the potentiometer."


Is it possible that the replacement potentiometer is failing? Can just the potentiometer be replaced? Any ideas on who can repair these devices?


I have spoken with many "experts" and no one can assist.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Before TD took over Mathers, we just replaced the controls. New or used, fixed our customers issues quickly.
Sun, heat and weather would mostly take out the upstairs options. That is where our searches began on station control select, clutch or throttle issues.

 

[cww]

How common are these problems? One of my guilty pleasures I hate to admit I watch is Below Decks. Mostly because it's the only way I'll ever get to see inside boats of that caliber. But on one of the recent episodes the captain was going nuts on the first mate because he left the bridge while docking with the engines still running. Said he hit a dock in the past because of a control failure. I have always thought the electronic controls are cool, but if this is the downside is it worth it?

 

[Pascal]

How common are these problems? One of my guilty pleasures I hate to admit I watch is Below Decks. Mostly because it's the only way I'll ever get to see inside boats of that caliber. But on one of the recent episodes the captain was going nuts on the first mate because he left the bridge while docking with the engines still running. Said he hit a dock in the past because of a control failure. I have always thought the electronic controls are cool, but if this is the downside is it worth it?

Control failures are possible but equally likely is a guest tripping and hitting the controls. The 116 I run is nowhere near Below Deck size but whenever we have a large group on board I always have a crew standing by in the raised pilothouse when I go downstairs to dock from the aft deck. Just in case a guest stumbles in.

 

[cww]

Control failures are possible but equally likely is a guest tripping and hitting the controls. The 116 I run is nowhere near Below Deck size but whenever we have a large group on board I always have a crew standing by in the raised pilothouse when I go downstairs to dock from the aft deck. Just in case a guest stumbles in.

116' is still a pretty darn impressive boat. I had one of my friends' kids start messing with the lower station when I was up top, thankfully we weren't docking. I thought something was wrong with the steering, the boat was all over the place.

 

[madhatter1]

Not a fan of any electronics on any boat ever. Stuff on engines is only for emissions and given that marine engines ramp up and stay at steady throttle probably not much gain on emissions. Side effects are the engine ECM can limit power due to sensors. What if to you would rather overheat an engine to outrun a storm but electronics limit power to save the engine you are willing to sacrifice to get into the inlet safely.

Then there was the time I was on a boat that had electronic throttles that when the SSB Mike was keyed they pinned the engines. Lots Of black smoke and soiled shorts!!

Give me a cable please.

 

[Steve Mannshardt]

I had a similar problem with ZF/ MMC controls. Not gears yet throttle. Non inputted output. Asked anyone and everyone. Woke up one night while all was quiet on the boat to an odd random buzzing. Instead of the LED 01 code stream one of the control boxes was acting up. Rest it and all was good. Replaced both boxes. Good solid 12vdc and grounds with no problems since.

 

[Bob Quinn]

How common are these problems? One of my guilty pleasures I hate to admit I watch is Below Decks. Mostly because it's the only way I'll ever get to see inside boats of that caliber. But on one of the recent episodes the captain was going nuts on the first mate because he left the bridge while docking with the engines still running. Said he hit a dock in the past because of a control failure. I have always thought the electronic controls are cool, but if this is the downside is it worth it?

Ditto on that, also watch. Recently Captain Sandy had a huge new boat whose stabilizers went out while at anchor (not sure how they work at anchor- must be a fancier version that what we are used to) and the boat rolled HARD. Anyways, electronics break if not designed and put through years of testing. Worse is systems that don't have multiple fail safes to prevent problems - which I think most of these systems probably don't have obviously. A bit off topic, but I have enough problems keeping mechanical systems running. I also have designed and built robotic servo systems and have seen them run wild unexpectedly, as well as CNC machines that have run away problems. The only CNC equipment that is built with 99.999% ?? uptime are Fanuc machines. Based on my experience I'm glad I don't have those systems although if I had them I would probably be thrilled with them - until they fail.

With regards to the OP question, whatever the solution I would hard press the manufacturer for some kind of secondary failsafe! That could be a very dangerous situation, and if it failed once it can certainly fail again. Maybe a secondary set of hard switches to guarantee neutral position somehow? Maybe a push button switch like on power saws that are built into the handle to make sure the operator has the switch held down when shifting into gear? Obviously they aren't going to want to do anything, but if someone dies from something like this they could be out of business quite quickly and responsible for a death. Customer service would probably be too low on the ladder to do anything about it, someone higher up in engineering might be more willing to help.
Hopefully there is a way to turn the system off and still manually run the boat until a proven solution is in place? Good luck it sounds like a tough situation.

 

[Scarlett]

I surveyed a 70 Hatteras MY that had electronic controls but also had a Manuel release and a set of Manuel cable controls in a cabinet in the pilot house. Thought it was a great set up.

 

[Pascal]

I surveyed a 70 Hatteras MY that had electronic controls but also had a Manuel release and a set of Manuel cable controls in a cabinet in the pilot house. Thought it was a great set up.

I used to run a boat with 3412Es and Morse electronic controls. There was indeed a mechanical back up control but to activate it you had to go in the ER and manually engage levers on the servos. The Taiwan builder had installed them outboard if the engines where you couldn’t not reach them until the engines had cooled. And even then you d better be small and thin …

 

[egaito]

The control heads do go bad, it's the pots, especially in the outdoor units. I had to replace two on a boat I had with them when they went nuts with the same symptoms you described. One set in the cockpit, one on the flybridge. The lower helm, inside, never failed. I also fired the local "authorized" guy and sent him off my boat. I knew more about the system than he did, and I had just started learning. That was back when it was Mathers. Heck, back then, they sold me a new pair of control boxes directly at a nice discount if I promised to put a hammer through my old "680" series and not resell them. I had called support one day and told them I was tossing the whole system and putting cables back in. Those boxes had issues, but the 2000 series were fine once I got them dialed in.