"Your boat is too old" Insurance ??

[akintosyali]

I am having a hard time finding insurance from my 1965 41 DC. Metlife said they will not insure boats more than 15 years old, and Progressive will not insure boats over 20 years old.

Is anyone working with an agent that services the IL area that can underwrite for older boats?

Thanks,
Akin

 

[Freebird]

I have my 1965 41DC insured with State Farm in Tennessee. I've heard from others outside this area that State Farm will not offer them insurance, but you may give them a try.

 

[Freebird]

Hey Akin,

Just thought of someone else for you to contact, Marine Underwriters Agency. I don't have their info but you can do a search and find them. I used them for years, but they wouldn't insure my 41 without a full survey. State Farm didn't require one, so I went with them to save the bucks on the survey.

 

[thoward]

We used Brown and Brown, Great Lakes is the carrier I think. This was one of the few who would write a policy in Fla for a 60' boat. State Farm would not write on anything over 100k or over 50'.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

My 21year old Hatt is insured with AutoOwners.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Have you tried BoatUS? Also, have you tried Hagerty? You might also look through this forum- this topic has come up in the past several times. Try the search function, you will find some insurer names there.

 

[Freebird]

State Farm would not write on anything over 100k or over 50'.

Man that just doesn't make any sense that State Farm differs so much in certain areas. I have 250k on my '74 58TC with a $250 deductible for about $2,500 per year. I normally carry a $1,000 deductible, but I figured I'd carry a $250 until I got it back to Tennessee. Turned out to be a good thing.

I called my agent today to get clarification on how long I could keep my 58 in Florida as it still has engine problems, and the dam is still broke in Alabama. His secretary told me she thought I had 90 days, but said she would confirm and call me back. She said I may need a rider for a longer period. I'll let you guys know what she tells me.

 

[MicroKap]

Just make sure of the difference between "Agreed Value" and "Actual Value" policies. Agreed policies are usually based on a survey value and remain constant. Actual value is usually determined by values of recent sales which may not take into account all the blood sweat and tears (and boat bucks) that you've put into your boat while another person didn't do anything to the same model boat you're being compared to. Some people insure through their home owners policy and get screwed if bad things happen. My deductible went from 2% to 3% of agreed hull value this year and went up 12% in NJ. I went through Total Dollar. A current SAMS or NAMS survey may bring the price down and allow you to go "shopping" easier. Also, a boating safety course through the US Power Squadron or US Coast Guard Aux. may bring the price down as well.

At the Northeast Hatteras Rendevous 2005, Gowrie was in attendance and really knew their stuff. When my current policy gets near the end, I'm probably going to give them a call to see what can be done.

 

[Freebird]

Just make sure of the difference between "Agreed Value" and "Actual Value" policies. Agreed policies are usually based on a survey value and remain constant.

Good point. Mine is "Agreed Value" after suppying State Farm with a requested market value survey. Provided I don't sell it first, I will dump a fair amount of money into updating the interior, but the $250k I carry will still be sufficient unless I really get carried away and end up having to rebuild my 12V71's. Then I may have to back up and punt!

 

[Pascal]

i just got my renewal from boatUS... it's ironic that I was actually happy to see my premium jump up to $5700, just out of relief that they were actually going to renew it since I'm in so fl... last year they reduced the value to $175, that was a trick not increase the premium...

if you do the math, you'll see that the best deal are with the highest possible deductible.. whether car or boat, low deductibles are a rip off... take in account the higher premium, increased premium in case of a claim and you'll see that if dont' file a small claim in 3 or 4 years, you're ahead...

 

[Genesis]

Actually, Pascal, that wasn't a trick. It was IMHO an attempted rip-off and Boat/US got caught!

What they actually did was increase the rates before having approval to do so from the insurance commission - they sent out literally thousands of renewal bills with 60% or more premium increases. The commission then said get lost! to their rate request (remember, they billed BEFORE they had approval!), so what Boat/US did to "fix" this (since they were then legally obligated to refund the "excess" premium) was unilaterally go back and reduce values, which, by the way, isn't within the spirit (and perhaps the letter either) of the law. After all, you could look at your physical damage coverage as being $x for each $1,000 of coverage, right? That's how I see it, and I suspect its how you see it too. It's how the insurance commission should see it, but apparently they didn't, because there was no second round of enforcement action.

Gigabite's policy renewed during the time between their change (which, by the way, a month previous they told me WOULD NOT HAPPEN, an intentional lie told to attempt to disadvantage me in shopping for replacement coverage!) and the insurance commission's slapdown. I told Boat/US to get lost and found replacement coverage. A month or so later I was in a West store that I frequent and the manager, who is a friend of mine, told me about what they had done post-commission-review - his sailboat, which was insured with them, had its agreed value unilaterally cut by 40%, while the premium remained the same. Of course that meant he was radically underinsured, and they simply refused to write for any higher agreed value - period.

Beware the secondary effects of this reduction in agreed value, by the way. When you go shop for replacement coverage, if you do, you may find that your insurance record has been "tainted" by this reduction in agreed value, and you find it difficult - or impossible - to get your old agreed value back with a new carrier! When I moved my coverage I was asked for the details of my previous, and I suspect (but can't prove) that there's a database out there that had the details of my policy limits in it which the new underwriter could see. That could get kind of sticky down the road...

It is this sort of practice - which I personally find well beyond outrageous - that led me to drop Boat/US as a company I support after more than 10 years of STAUNCH use of them for my marine insurance needs.

I will never buy marine insurance from Boat/Useless again; I don't do business with people who transact business in this manner.

 

[Jackman]

I wouldn't bother with National Marine Underwriters...they dropped my as of the end of this year. They sited the same reasons as everyone else....Boats over 30ft and from Texas to Maine on the coastline....and more than 15yrs old are being dropped. I'm forced to look now. I would have thought that more smaller boats would have been lost...they get thrown around easier and their owners don't care about their boats as much as we do...Go figure...I'm not even in the "hurricane zone" being I live in Pa and boat in De.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Karl, that is rediculous that Boat U.S. is allowed to get away with that. I had a heck of a time getting more insurance last month after I was non-renewed by NMU for the reasons stated above, like everyone else on the Gulf Coast.

I had paid $3,100/yr for $250k coverage and a 3% deductible with NMU last year. After calling EVERYONE, most quotes were $8400-9,200/yr, roughly TRIPLE what I was paying! I even called State Farm and Allstate for the heck of it! SF quoted me $6k for $100k coverage and went on to say that it should come in around $15k/yr for $250k coverage! I THOUGHT I had found the "Holy Grail" of marine insurance for a brief time, because Allstate called me back and quoted me $4,100/yr for $250k coverage AFTER THEY HAD ACCEPTED MY SURVEY! I was ready to sign, then at the VERY last minute the agent told me that although there is nothing in the underwriting guidlelines to this effect, when he called the underwriting dept back to bind he got someone other than he has spoken to in the past and was informed that they would not write any boats over 30yrs old! WOW was I mad! They had accepted my survey 2 weeks before! Oh well.

I ended up going with Boat U.S. for $7,800/yr. WAY too much money but other than the two "overseas" quotes for $6500-6700, Boat US was the cheapest and they were here in the U.S. I figured if I was going to get bent over for nearly $7k, I may as well go the extra $1k and have REAL insurance! I certainly didn't want to be in the same boat Angela is in (no pun intended) with the overseas insurer. At least Boat US has proved recently that they do actually pay claims. So much for that new Furuno Navnet Radar this year.

 

[MicroKap]

Freebird,
Just to keep you up on the way the young kids approving these policies are doing them now days, I thought I would let you know that any updates, such as interior improvements aren't necessarily going to increase your hull value even if you submit receipts because they now consider this "improvements for your own pleasure" and they may "increase your ability to sell the boat in the future". Also, any mechanical fixes, overhauls, etc. are considered routine maintenance on the boat and does not increase value either in the eyes of the insurance company. New electronics, stabilizers, bowthruster, etc. may increase value. Unfortunately, the underwriters don't know the difference between a Bayliner and a Hatteras. I'd like to see a 30 year old Bayliner.

 

[luckydave215]

There aren't any.

 

[Pascal]

another issue with switching insurance, even if i could find a cheaper policy, woudl be at least $1000 in survey and haul out plus whatever useless repairs the new carrier woudl require... see Angela's previous post...

and i'd hate to switch only to have them drop me next year and go back to sqaure one again....

add to these insurance issues the drastic docking cost increase we're going to see in the years to come ... there was an article yesterday on how rising property value has caused taxes to triple for marinas in Palm Beach county (and likely in other counties...). When a marina's tax bill goes from 150k to 500k... guess who will be paying for it ?

maybe i should move to Tn....

 

[thoward]

The whole insurance deal is getting out of hand. I've owned boats for 20 years and not one claim. I have to get resurveyed every 2 years to keep the insurance coverage I have. I find absurd that boat owners are not held liable for failure to secure their boat during a windstorm! It is going to get to the point where there is no windstorm coverage.

 

[Freebird]

I'm still waiting on someone from State Farm to tell me how long I can keep my 58 in FL before having to add a rider. I've heard all you guys tell your horror stories about insurance rates in FL. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with that, YET!

I did have an interesting conversation with a dock neighbor last week in Palmetto with a gentlemen from Wilmington, NC. The subject of insurance came up, and he told me he was carrying $350k on his 40 something Carver and was paying around $3,500. I asked if it was because it was insured in NC, but he said he had insurance in FL through an indpendent agent there in Bradenton. I meant to get specifics from him, but I forgot. I'll be headed down there again in a couple of weeks and will get details. I may need it myself, and I'll pass on any info to you guys.

PS Just got a call from State Farm. Message: "You're covered for as much time as you need in Florida." Time referencing repair of broken dam lock in AL, and/or repair of starboard engine. I'll never complain about slow mechanics again!

 

[captddis]

I was pleasantly suprised when I got my BU/S. Renewals and there was no price increase or reduction in value. They also stayed with the hurricane deductable of 5%, while most of the others went to 10%.

 

[Genesis]

I wonder if they got stung more than a bit with the silly stuff they pulled on me (and a lot of others)?