Volvo IPS 500

[BlackPearl36c]

so as I am seriously considering purchasing the series I 36c and know the engines are in pretty good shape I have been looking into repower options so that in a couple years I already have everything lined up.

I was looking into the Volvo IPS 500 as they seem to be the nicest configuration. What do you guys think of the Volvo diesels? I know most of you are cummins guys but having the extra fuel economy of the 370hp motors the exhaust exits the drive through the bottom of the vessel and it is all electronic steering and throttle meaning no more scuppers blowing exhaust fumes into the cockpit and about 500-1000lbs less of hydraulic steering equipment a ton of weight from the engines themselves, more space in the engine room as the volvos are tiny compared to most of the other 370hp options out there. and no worries about fouling of running gear.

What are your feelings on having a drive on the bottom of the vessel? do you think it would work on the hatt?

 

[Boatsb]

I do not know of the IPS or even the cummins version being available for retrofit. There are structural and installation issues that could be a problem. If you were to be the first to try this what would you do if they are not compatible?

 

[BlackPearl36c]

well i know the engine area would have to be modded to accomadate the mounting system and 2 large holes would have to be cut in the the bottom of the vessel and reinforced as the drive sysrtem is part of the mounting. I am actually waiting to hear back from Volvo to see if this is something they may be able to advise me on. I know the cummins 330b's with Zeus drives are not availible as of yet for sale unless maybe i can find a set pulled from a totaled vessel.

One of the other issues i have been thinking of is the speed.. would the hull have to be modified to accomadate the top speed? these engines can push a 20,000 lb vessel at a top speed of 36-44 mph and cruise easily at 32-34 mph but dont the old hatts start to keelwalk at around 30? the specs are pretty impressive as far as fuel consumtion goes.

Just wondering if the performance and fuel consumption would be worth the money invested to make it happen... will get back and let you know what Volvo says

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Volvo makes some great engines that they put in their construction equipment. They are very fuel efficient and seem to give good life with minimal downtime. I don't know about the marine versions, but we have been happy with what we have.

 

[DeeRow]

A couple of years ago I inquired about repowering my boat with a pod drive system. I would prefer Cummings and Zeus drives but I didn't find a dealer willing to even discuss it. The local Volvo dealer said the engines and drives would cost $100k. That doesn't include any labor. The key issue is that both systems perform best with a specific hull design. IPS systems do best without prop pockets. Zeus systems do best in prop pockets. I don't have a Hatteras, but my boat was designed by Jim Wynn who I believe designed the 36c (series II?). My boat has prop pockets as I believe the 36c does(?).

Since the introduction of the Zeus system, ZF has developed two other pod drives that they appear to be willing to sell regardless of the engine that they are connected to (CAT has some marketing information that you can find via google of CAT engines paired with ZF pod drives). Recently, I recently found information via google that indicated the hull area where the pod drives are mounted needed 14 layers of glass instead of the usual 5 (I don't remember the brand of boat that they were refering to). Perhaps a Hatteras has the required strength but I would want a naval architect to verify.

Other things to consider, the exhaust in the prop wash may result in poor fishing performance. There have been articles in the trade press recently that have boats that have diverters that route the exhaust in a traditional way when trolling, and thru the props when not. Autopilots use a hydraulic pump to steer the boat, so for a pod drive system, you need a special AP. I believe that the Garmin AP for IPS ($6749) is twice the cost (MSRP) of the traditional AP ($3200 core pack + pump). The Raymarine AP requires a $1000 interface cable (of course, if your going to spend over $100k, what's another $1k). I'm not sure if anybody makes an AP for the ZF drives. One benefit of the pod system is increased room inside the boat. But your not likely to modify the boat to put the engines under the cockpit.

For my boat, I've considered just replacing the drive system with pods because my engines are already under the cockpit, and the hull has prop pockets. This would result in a 10 - 30 percent increase in performance/economy. But my 3208's do not have electronic controlled throttles which I believe are required for a joy stick (I assume this because all video's on youtube of joystick docking have the engine rpm's changing). Also, I believe that the hull would need re-enforcement.

At this point, it is just an acedemic excercise, as I'm nowhere near ready to spent $100K on this boat. In this economy, it might be more cost effective to look for a repo that already has IPS drives or Zeus.

 

[67hat34c]

Not worth that type of modification. Fact if you are looking to save money then keep the gassers running fine, you will never realize a break even with diesel conversion.

If you ever repower then go to cummins 330b with standard type drive. You will likely have to increase shaft size unless the Prior repower did that. Minimum 1.5" shaft.

Suspect with this set up you will get at 22-23kt cruise and 28kt wot.

 

[BlackPearl36c]

Right from what I understood the AP system is included with the Volvo engines as the whole system comes with the electronic steering, throttles, joystick, and AP which is why it runs 100k. not sure as to the effect the exhaust would have on fishing but its something to look into although I wouldnt think its too much of a problem since they use the ips drives on the Ocean 37 billfish that they use in tournaments.

The series 1 does not have any pockets but the series 2 does so the ips drives would work on the series one but not the 2 as they cannot go in pockets due to the reverse direction of the drive. As far as the glass goes i would have to have an engineer look at it but i know these old hats have one seriously thick hull.

 

[Avenger]

Better Cover Up Your Parade.... It Looks Like Rain

I'd like to, as politely as possible, suggest you abandon this exercise ASAP. The Series I 36C hull won't go over about 30 kts without developing some serious handling problems. Volvo.... well, let's just say there's a reason they paint them green. They're made out of money and you had better be also if you plan to play with them. Now I've never priced these, but any time I've looked into alternative propulsion like jet-drives the fancy drives double the price of the power package.

Then there's the re-engineering involved in getting all that hardware to fit in a hull that was never designed for it. The fuel tanks are under the cockpit deck where the drives will have to go, where will you put the tanks? Where will you put the engines? They won't fit under the cockpit deck, so do you leave them in the current engine space and jack-shaft them to the drives? Back to the problem of where do the fuel tanks go if you can't put them in the old engine space....

If you were to go ahead with something like this you'd probably end up dropping 200K on a boat that's maybe worth about 100K on it's best day in a good economy. Sorry to be a wet-blanket, but you'd be 10 times better off to put a set of B-series Cummins in it and call it a day. Much cheaper, and a proven package that somebody would be willing to buy if you had to sell. BTW, if you look in the Parts For Sale section of this forum there's somebody selling a running set of 250 HP. B-series from a 36C. You might want to consider grabbing them and putting them away for the future.

 

[BlackPearl36c]

If I was to do a project like this it would not be from a resale point to be honest I plan on keeping this vessel till I am old and withered if I want to go bigger ill pass it on to my son and let it become his headach lol. I am mearly looking into options at this point and getting some opinions. Volvo stated they may be interested in giving me the setup at a substantially reduced price if i let them demonstrate the vessel as part of a campaign they may be putting together for boat builders and retrofitters and I mean substantially reduced price. They would even do the install. Something to consider

 

[Mike36c]

What Scrod says is right on. Having been down that road with my 36 go with the Cummins 6B's (330-370hp) and be done with it. You can buy a LOT of boat right now for the same IPS $$$ and save yourself months if not years of free labor. Trust me.....

 

[Avenger]

No repower from gas to diesel makes economic sense from a resale standpoint. They get done for exactly the reason you stated; because the owner loves the boat plans to keep it forever.

If Volvo is going to pick up the tab and deal with the engineering. Hey, have at it. But I would make them promise to buy the boat if the job doesn't work out. And make sure you're the one who gets to decide if it worked out.

 

[BlackPearl36c]

that is a very good point that i hadnt considered when getting Volvo involved thank you i will run it by them if they say no way then it would most def be a no go

 

[rsmith]

They could never get I/O's to hold up outboard lower units crap out all the time. I had a neighbor that had one of those duoprop setups on a Crusiers that was allways leaking oil or broke. I can't see how these are going to survive Barnacles, coral, critters,growing in the works, electrolisis not to mention the complexity of it all. I cant even begin to imagine all the bellows, seals, orings gaskets. to go bad in this design.What about fishingline? suckup a bunch of mono in these and cut up the seals? And then all the debris out there these things just look like they are saying "come to me mr 4x4, mr cargo net the liberian freighter just threw overboard"It boggles the mind.

 

[captddis]

They could never get I/O's to hold up outboard lower units crap out all the time. I had a neighbor that had one of those duoprop setups on a Crusiers that was allways leaking oil or broke. I can't see how these are going to survive Barnacles, coral, critters,growing in the works, electrolisis not to mention the complexity of it all. I cant even begin to imagine all the bellows, seals, orings gaskets. to go bad in this design.What about fishingline? suckup a bunch of mono in these and cut up the seals? And then all the debris out there these things just look like they are saying "come to me mr 4x4, mr cargo net the liberian freighter just threw overboard"It boggles the mind.

Pretty much sums my feelings, not to mention when electrical gremlins set in with the joy sticks etc. Time will tell.

Agree with Scrod green for money$$$$$

 

[DeeRow]

They could never get I/O's to hold up outboard lower units crap out all the time. I had a neighbor that had one of those duoprop setups on a Crusiers that was allways leaking oil or broke. I can't see how these are going to survive Barnacles, coral, critters,growing in the works, electrolisis not to mention the complexity of it all. I cant even begin to imagine all the bellows, seals, orings gaskets. to go bad in this design.What about fishingline? suckup a bunch of mono in these and cut up the seals? And then all the debris out there these things just look like they are saying "come to me mr 4x4, mr cargo net the liberian freighter just threw overboard"It boggles the mind.

I believe that the design of the new pod systems is more like a pod system on a cruise ship than an outdrive. I just searched Yachtworld and they list 483 boats with IPS drives. These range from a 92' Lazzara with 4 IPS 850's to a 28' center console. The oldest vessel listed is a 2005. 209 are new. 274 used. Of the 8 that are listed as sailboats, only one is actually a sailboat (uh.. maybe Yachtworld is not a good source). IPS is becoming popular and it is being installed in all kinds of boats more than outdrives ever had. I haven't seen one corroded in a yard like you see outdrives. Not sure that means anything.

 

[rsmith]

I believe that the design of the new pod systems is more like a pod system on a cruise ship than an outdrive. I just searched Yachtworld and they list 483 boats with IPS drives. These range from a 92' Lazzara with 4 IPS 850's to a 28' center console. The oldest vessel listed is a 2005. 209 are new. 274 used. Of the 8 that are listed as sailboats, only one is actually a sailboat (uh.. maybe Yachtworld is not a good source). IPS is becoming popular and it is being installed in all kinds of boats more than outdrives ever had. I haven't seen one corroded in a yard like you see outdrives. Not sure that means anything.

give it time there is just too much to go wrong and no mater how good the design Mr murphy is always ready to screw it up
why wouldanyone want all that drag on a sailboat unless it sucks up into the hull james bond style? then there would be no room inside.I read about a couple that ran aground or snagged something and the people on the boat were all seriously injured. From what I understand if you snag something the units are supposed to break away. wouldnt that be special to be comming in a bad inlet in following seas and have the units fall off.LOL you know its going to happen.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I totally agree with Scrod on this, and I think several other folks do as well. There are a number of good reasons NOT to look at pod drives of any kind as a repower for a Series I 36C, as follows:

1) these hulls were not designed to go that fast. Mine will do over thirty knots, with 370B Cummins, but I've only done it on sea trials on calm water, and it isn't a good habit to get into- not without reinforcing the hull outboard of the engine stringers. Fitting bigger engines means fitting larger shaft alleys for bigger shafts, and different struts to get enough wheel to put the power in the water. Essentially it means redesigning the whole boat, which is foolish- it's better to just get a different boat which was made to go faster, if that's what you want. And we haven't even considered pod drives yet. (see below)

2) fitting pod drives will require reengineering the entire bottom of the boat from about midships aft- these drives are set into a reinforced section of the hull at a specific point behind the engine, which the 36C doesn't have, and you would have to rebuild the entire hull to put it in. You would also have to relocate the fuel tanks, which would end up in front of the engines, I think- boats with pod drives tend to have the engines located further aft. That would mean taking out the rear cabin bulkhead, which is a major structural component of the boat. I don't know what you'd do to replace that. But you'd need to do something. The boat would be structurally unsound without it, and you couldn't get insurance on it- plus it's unlikely Volvo would sign off on the installation and start your warranty.

3) for the difference in cost and trouble, which would be enormous, you'd have a boat that would probably perform about the same, at least in terms of usable performance. You might spend two or three times as much to rebuild the boat to use pod drives as you would spend to do the time-tested repower of a 36C- Cummins B diesels and ZF220 gears. Providing they are in good shape, you can reuse your original shafts, just change the wheels, and new engine mounts for the B series engines are not difficult to make. The 370s will give you a comfortable 25 knot cruise with a lot of speed in reserve on the days you want or need it. All the plumbing etc for diesels was put into these boats when they were new, regardless of what engines they had, so you won't have much trouble there.

4) Cummins B engines are still available as "remans" which are in fact essentially new Tier I engines, with a good warranty from Cummins, and a very reasonable price. I don't know where you are, but you should try T&S Marine Engines or Edwards Marine Engines, both on the MD Eastern Shore. This is not a difficult installation or repower. I think I paid about 16,500 each for my engines (bobtail- I had the gears off my Caterpillars)

Good luck and do the sensible thing. A 36C with modern small diesels is a delightful boat- fast, economical, and reliable. You don't need pod drives to transform your boat, and you'll get fine performance without spending a great deal more than you need to.

 

[DeeRow]

...why wouldanyone want all that drag on a sailboat ....

The listing in Yachtworld that was a sailboat did not have IPS. I don't know why it was returned by the search. The other 7 boats did have IPS drives, but were powerboats. Yachtworld is only as good as those who enter the data... Garbage In/GarbageOut.