Possible new Bertram 31

[capttonyf]

If the people building boats have anywhere near the mentality of the people repairing them then I can again see how the cost is through the roof. It's like the yards and repair facilities think everyone is loaded like the people buying $5 Million Dollar boats.

We're having some work done and they charge like attorneys. They want to bill you out at high rate while charging you for rags, paper shoes, Misc Shop Materials etc. I look at it like this, my family ownes Banquet Halls and Bars. That would be like us charging for napkins, forks, soap to do the dishes, tablecloths, etc. Oh you need a knife to cut that steak, that will be an extra $1.25. Some of the charges should be included in the cost of doing business.

I just got an estimate for a new 2" shaft because ours has a crack next to the keyway. $3511.35 for the shaft and Approx $1,600 to R&R. So $5111.35 to replace a shaft. I don't know but 16 hours of labor? Seems a bit much. But my point to this is, I don't think anyone in the Yachting Industry cares about cost, especially on the repair side. Builders maybe, but, not yards, I think they have the attitude of oh well, he can afford it. I've seen the sign behind the Desk, " Our Job Isn't to Make Yachting Affordable". It should say, "Your Wealthy Enough to buy a Yacht, You can afford to Spread Some My Way".

I would agree with above, I think someone should be able to build a quality New 45 Convertible in the $700,000 to 1,000,000 at the most range. The problem is all the addons though. Haas anyine looked at a build sheet options list lately? It's crazy, on a Viking 46 for example options read like this.
Electronic Salon Door, $5,500
Master DVD Player $1,190.00
Master Safe $2,710.00
Master Head Glass cieling$3,060.00
Guest Install TV $1,665.00
Decor Access kit$7,285.00
Hard top, "NO Tower" $30,000.00
Helm Pod w/controls $7,000
Plum Cockpit Livewell $4,265
Crushed Ice $15K
Davit $35K

It's just nuts how much it all costs. Nearly impossible for a normal working executive or small business owner with a family to ever buy.


Tony

 

[saltshaker]

Let's not forget that the cost of the raw materials to build the boat has gone through the roof. High cost of construction coupled with low demand isn't going to give you an affordable high quality boat. Consider what the property cost for the facilities to build these boats and, as Derek said, the high cost of doing business today and no boats will not be cheaper to build today. Technology has decreased production cost for many things but boating isn't one of them. The technology aids in the design and does make construction more efficient but boat building is very labor intensive and far from cheap material wise. Even the mass produced small boats are very pricey. Scotts comparrison to cars is very accurate. 15 years ago 30K would get you an average SUV like a Jeep or an Explorer. It also would get you a 25' Searay with an IO. Today a similar SUV is 35K-40K and that Searay is 80K-100K. I was shocked when I saw a 25ft Searay bowrider with a single V8 IO for 92K and 75K as a "Boat show price." Look at housing cost and you see the same trend. It takes a much larger percentage of your income to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle than it did back when we were kids.

 

[Walter P]

Tony,

And therin lies the real issue today. As has been said many times on this forum and other places, you may be able to buy the boat, but the cost of keeping it is obscene today. It's no wonder so many folks are getting out of boating...

Walt

 

[saltshaker]

To add to Tony's list, I just ordered a $4200 exhaust manifold. That's insane for a chunk of metal that was designed many years ago. I could buy a rider mower, snowblower, power washer and portable generator for the same price, not one but all for the cost of one manifold.

 

[capttonyf]

To add to Tony's list, I just ordered a $4200 exhaust manifold. That's insane for a chunk of metal that was designed many years ago. I could buy a rider mower, snowblower, power washer and portable generator for the same price, not one but all for the cost of one manifold.

Enough to make you sick. But really what is it about that manifold that costs $4200? It's not that much material.

Tony

 

[saltshaker]

Enough to make you sick. But really what is it about that manifold that costs $4200? It's not that much material.

Tony

Hopefully you won't find out first hand as you have 4 of them in your boat. I have 8 and am now questioning the other 7. Mechanic says I should be fine with one but makes me wonder if/when the others may need to be replaced. This one failed and I don't think it was due to age or wear. Detroit parts guy said he's seen many fail the way mine did and wouldn't be too concerned about the others.

 

[Boatsb]

But if you buy 8 you can save $50 a piece.

 

[thoward]

The Riviera 43 Flybridge with IPS is pushing $1,000,000. On the other hand, a 42' Yellowfin with trip outboards runs $500,000. It can be dry stored or kept on a lift. It will get you there and back at 45+ knots. With all the coastal development, I am not sure there is much of a market for new 43+/- convertibles. In many ways, the CC option is cheaper, faster and less hassle.

 

[madhatter1]

In 1996 when Renovators Yachts was refitting my boat there were several full restorations going on. 28 & 31 Bertram's, 34 & 36 Hatteras's, and some others. Why that demand has dropped of as an alternative to new at a fraction of the price is beyond me. Especially with the lack of new boats of these types. I know it is partly due to keeping up with the Jonses and having the latest greatest.

The big HP, high speed cruise thing is also keeping the restorations down as everyone thinks they need twin 600's for a 36. Then those suckers need fuel and maintenance. When I repowered in 98 I was advised then to buy the most HP I could get for the boat. I did not listen and am now very underpowered "at the brochure" but very nicely and economically power for the real world.

Realistically if they built a new 31 equipped old school but with some new ideas and gadgets it would not sell for the same reasons. At least not in todays world. Wait until todays kids who get a new smart phone every 6 months get into the market.

 

[capttonyf]

The Riviera 43 Flybridge with IPS is pushing $1,000,000. On the other hand, a 42' Yellowfin with trip outboards runs $500,000. It can be dry stored or kept on a lift. It will get you there and back at 45+ knots. With all the coastal development, I am not sure there is much of a market for new 43+/- convertibles. In many ways, the CC option is cheaper, faster and less hassle.

Your right the CC option is cheaper, faster, less hassle and I do see where a good chunk of the market has gone that way. However, they are nowhere near as comfortable as a 45 Convertible on long runs. I travel and fish with my kids onboard 95% of the time and the AC Salon and stateroom bunks are invaluable for young and old alike to be able to relax out of the cold/heat and grab a nap if needed.

Also, with a rack kept boat you miss out on the "Marina Time", just going to hang out, drop a line and have a few drinks.

Don't get me wrong, CC are great for a group of die hard fisherman going offshore, or quick family ride on a nice day, or on the intercoastal. But if the weather is rough and your blasting waves and ducking spray it's hard for the average person to enjoy themselves.

A Convertible is best for us because we like to fish, cruise, swim, island hop, and or just hang out sometimes. I believe we use our boat in the exact manner the designers of the 1st "Convertible" planned on it being used. If I only fished with other "Salty" friends then a CC would be fine but for my Family and the way we use it I believe a Convertible is perfect.

On a side note I was just in Cape May, NJ last weekend. It was nice to see more normal everyday boats as opposed to what I'm used to seeing in South FL. You start to lose a sense of reality, and see a lot of "Keeping Up With the Jones's", with all the Maga Yacht Sportfish and Motoryachts everywhere. It makes our 45 which is a nice boat by most accounts feel like an inexpensive dingy.

Tony

 

[Boatsb]

Like Tony said. If you have a wife and kids that you want to spend time with a CC is not an option.

Cheaper is not better. Faster is not better.

Better is the right fit. One day its the boys fishing, The next its the family anchored out and relaxing. Stay out on the hook or run to a marina you still have a comfortable boat to be on.

 

[thoward]

Got to figure out who is going to drive the market; boomers are too old, Xers are too small and Millennials are less white, less male, broke, unmarried, childless, still living at parents home.

 

[season]

I started this thread so here are a few of my observations.
1. I am a boomer
2. I know that my physical capabilities to operate a ladder accessed flybridge convertible are probably 10 years at best.
3. I want to fish and cruise and I want it air conditioned with at least a small saloon to enjoy the end of the day and evening when it is hot.
So something in the 36 to 43 foot convertible is probably the boat for me. That was why I was intrigued with the news that Bertram might be bringing a couple of 31's back to the market. Can I afford a new boat? Hell no. But at least the idea of smaller well built offshore boats that are not CC's was encouraging.
I totally agree with what has been stated on this thread about the costs of purchase vs. the cost of ownership. I liken it to being able to sit down on a brahma bull in the chute vs. staying on him after the gate is opened. Last year I asked for feedback from the forum group on joint ownership of a boat and there was mostly silence. I thought I had touched the third rail. Obviously for many on this forum the cost of ownership is not an issue and I admire your success in life that has provided for your ability to enjoy your private time or your retirement. Thank you again for those who responded with sage advice. I know that partnerships are open to many pitfalls. Would I like to be sole owner of Hatteras...you bet. However, if the cost of owning one is going to bankrupt my retirement then I need to find a way around it. I suggest that if the cost of ownership and maintenance is cut in half there is a pretty good chance that you are going to actually use the boat more often during your six months of ownership however you divvy it up as the cost of diesel is not as big a factor when everything else cost-wise is halved.
This may become a go to solution for many of us wanting to get into larger boats in todays economy. Your thoughts?
Randy

 

[madhatter1]

There are many nice boats repowered say 5 to 10 years ago going for a fraction of the owners investment in the boat. Go for this. Look every singe day and be the first offer on the right boat. There are many reasons why a low hour repowered boat is going for a low price. Who cares why, survey and if OK buy it right.

 

[Boatsb]

There is one person who I would consider as a boat partner but I'm happy to be able to do it myself for now. My father at 70+ went to a 31 express and uses it quite a lot. He has a bridge because it was there but rarely uses it. He has help maintaining it and the costs are reasonable.

A 35 to 45 express seems to me a great boat for later in life. Being beaten to death in a cc is not fun. Having comforts is more important than just speed. Being able to use the boat into my 70s and even 80s sounds like a great idea. Being able to handle a large sf seems like a reach.

 

[rsmith]

OK so I'll admit I'm a die hard Hatteras fan. Back in the day it was Hatteras/Bertram was the Chevy Ford. Sure there was Viking Post but they were heavy wood slugs. The 31 Bert and the 34 Hatt were pretty much direct competition. I mated on a 31 Bertram in my early teens for a Capt that ran mostly inshore Bluefish charters. IMHO it's a god awful boat and a stupid design. Yes the hull is based on the "moppie" that Bertram won the Mia Nassau race and it is a cool looking boat but that's about it. The freeboard in the cockpit is so low you feel like your going to fall out of the damn thing. The bridge is a cramped sit down afair. Personally I like to stand so I can turn and watch the lines scan for birds and fish. At the. End of the day when you have to get through that churning inlet I want to stand and feel like I'm in command of the boat not sit on a bench seat with my knees in my chest. That brings us to those stupid engine boxes. Awkward waste of cockpit space and trip hazards. On every wet dewy stagnant morning the engines would be soaked in sweat. The standard procedure was to pull the distributor caps and dry things out before the engines would start. Then they would shake fart and misfire untill they warmed up. Then there's the cabin. Like crawling into a hole. If you want to go home early get them all into that confined stagnant cave. Guaranteed they will be chumming in minutes. And there is nowhere to get away from the smell. I spent more wet sloppy rides home hunched in the back corner of the cockpit with my rain gear pulled over my head trying to get as far away as possible. The last thing I wanted was to hear that "hey kid dump this for me" and get handed a bucket of regurgitated kabaka. I've never been seasick in my life but that tests the mettle of an iron stomach.

 

[Boatsb]

As another member stated

RLDT

 

[jim rosenthal]

Season, I think if you keep looking you'll find the right mid size Hatteras. Keep in mind they have built nearly eight thousand boats, I think it is, and probably 90% of them are still out there. Esp if you don't have to go blazing fast, you can probably find something you like a lot.