Northern Lights Generator

[Chasemmc]

Hello everyone,
Attempted to fire up the 20kw NL w/1,200hrs on it. It fired right up and ran for about1 minute and then died. On the restart it would fire and run a second or two and then die. When running was pushing the right amount of water out the exhaust, at least based on my past experience.

Up here in Chatanooga, no one (not even the NL Distributor) will service the unit. The independent guy will drop the oil, but no more.

So I guess the unit ran until it was starved of fuel. Have full tanks and the racor show normal range pressure. Tried to prime with the little lever on the side of the fuel pump. Same result.

A couple of questions:
1. Does anyone know of a NL service person who would come to Chatanooga to look at it?
2. Should I crack open the fuel filter top valve when bleeding?
3. What other things might it be?

I'm no mechanic and I guess no one at the marina service location is one either.......

Your help as always is greatly appreciated.

mark

 

[JD5652]

How old is the unit? Is it a 1980's vintage with the glass fuel filter where you can actually see the fuel inside the filter? If yes, is that filter full? Does it have an air space? Can you see air bubbles in it when you try to start unit?

When was the last time it was operated? If the fuel supply system is not super tight, then you can get air in the line over time.

Pumping the onboard primer pump can be helpful. But if that doesn't work, then you will need to crack open each injector fitting and bleed each one.

A relatively easy job for any descent diesel mechanic. Doesn't have to be a NL mechanic.

 

[CGHOST4]

Just a reminder, is there a fuel valve ahead of the Racor, and is it open. I had a similar issue with my NL 20.

Caesar's Ghost
1980 58 YF #472

 

[Pascal]

It s been a few years since I ve run a boat with NL20s

1)- if it fires up and then dies after a second or two, it s unlikely to be a fuel issue. If it was not getting fuel, it wouldn’t fire up at all

2)- do you have a start AND a run switch? Does it stop when you release the run switch? If so chances are the problem are with one of the safety switches (oil pressure or temperature) since when you release the run switch, you are activating the safeties. Wait a couple more second to release the run switch and see if runs longer

3)- the NL20s I am familiar with had electric fuel pumps and would self bleed.

4)- to eliminate a fuel issue, get a small low pressure fuel pump from a local auto part store and temporarily insert it between the tank and the racor and see if that helps.

5)- does the oil pressure gauge show good oil pressure ?

Any half decent diesel mechanic should be able to troubleshoot this. Didn’t have to be an NL specialist.

 

[Cricket]

Pascal is right, any diesel mechanic should be able to work on your NL, they are very simple diesel engines.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I had customers at Green Turtle, Grand Rivers.
When It warms up, I can fly in to you.
Seems the airports do not have problems with hammers and tools, Just pocket knives.

 

[Eddieclemons]

I had the same problem ( Engine died after 1+3 minutes requiring a fuel bleed) and after troubleshooting I came down to the loss of fuel. During this time I rebuilt my Racor 500, but then I went down the rabbit hole of the poor performance of the little NL/Perkins Lift pump that made changing the engine mounted fuel filter a huge task. I never put my Racor back on, I installed a Tony Athens setup with a priming bulb. All my problems were instantly gone.

 

[Eddieclemons]

I also replaced all of my fuel lines so I can't rule out that they weren't contributing to the problem, but I love the new setup with the Fleet filter of choice. Good Luck

 

[Eddieclemons]

FYI, my problem was only on a cold start. Once I started cold, it died after 1-3 minutes, then after a cranking or bleeding fuel to get a restart it would run as normal. Then on the next cold start it would be a repeat.

 

[Captain Ralph]

FYI, my problem was only on a cold start. Once I started cold, it died after 1-3 minutes, then after a cranking or bleeding fuel to get a restart it would run as normal. Then on the next cold start it would be a repeat.

Probably a low fuel tank also.
You kids have/had a lil air leak somewhere.
This small of a leak could just be the O ring on top of the Racor or an old tubing flair.
Patching it would be an electric pump or priming bulb, the correct fix will be finding the leak.
If not enough grey hairs yet, finding this lil air leak will help cause more grey hairs but a required task.
It will not fix it self but may get worse,, rite when you really need the gen-set.
Have fun and stay safe.

 

[zigzag930]

Untill you figure out why it's not running, BE REALLY CAREFUL not to over-crank the engine. I've heard of countless stories of people cranking them, while water fills the exhaust. Without the exhaust pressure, water will back up into the cylinders and hydro-lock (possibly damaging) the engine.

I've had my NL start for a minute and die in the past. Then it might start for a second or two and die. Problem has been fuel almost every time. I'd start by changing the engine fuel filter and the Razor. My little primer lever is about useless so I installed a inexpensive (Edlebrock) electric fuel pump to make priming easier. Still need to crack all the fuel lines at the injectors and pump until fuel starts to appear.

I always turn the water supply off to the generator until the motor starts for 1-2 seconds. Then stop it, open the water supply and restart.

I did one other issue that acted similarly. A wire on the fuel solenoid was loose and it was not allowing fuel to flow into the engine. Apparently, if vibrated loose after running a bit.

Anyway, I'd be sure you are getting fuel on the injector side of the HP pump by cracking the injectors open as suggested above.

 

[Eddieclemons]

I had customers at Green Turtle, Grand Rivers. When It warms up, I can fly in to you. Seems the airports do not have problems with hammers and tools, Just pocket knives.

I will put your number on speed dial.

 

[Sadey]

I also replaced all of my fuel lines so I can't rule out that they weren't contributing to the problem, but I love the new setup with the Fleet filter of choice. Good Luck

wow that’s a great set up!

 

[motoryacht lover]

Untill you figure out why it's not running, BE REALLY CAREFUL not to over-crank the engine. I've heard of countless stories of people cranking them, while water fills the exhaust. Without the exhaust pressure, water will back up into the cylinders and hydro-lock (possibly damaging) the engine.

I've had my NL start for a minute and die in the past. Then it might start for a second or two and die. Problem has been fuel almost every time. I'd start by changing the engine fuel filter and the Razor. My little primer lever is about useless so I installed a inexpensive (Edlebrock) electric fuel pump to make priming easier. Still need to crack all the fuel lines at the injectors and pump until fuel starts to appear.

I always turn the water supply off to the generator until the motor starts for 1-2 seconds. Then stop it, open the water supply and restart.

I did one other issue that acted similarly. A wire on the fuel solenoid was loose and it was not allowing fuel to flow into the engine. Apparently, if vibrated loose after running a bit.

Anyway, I'd be sure you are getting fuel on the injector side of the HP pump by cracking the injectors open as suggested above.

Very informative post. Thank you. I have a NL20 and i never thought of temporarily closing the seacock to prevent water build up. I like Eddie’s setup as well.

 

[JD5652]

Untill you figure out why it's not running, BE REALLY CAREFUL not to over-crank the engine. I've heard of countless stories of people cranking them, while water fills the exhaust. Without the exhaust pressure, water will back up into the cylinders and hydro-lock (possibly damaging) the engine.

I've had my NL start for a minute and die in the past. Then it might start for a second or two and die. Problem has been fuel almost every time. I'd start by changing the engine fuel filter and the Razor. My little primer lever is about useless so I installed a inexpensive (Edlebrock) electric fuel pump to make priming easier. Still need to crack all the fuel lines at the injectors and pump until fuel starts to appear.

I always turn the water supply off to the generator until the motor starts for 1-2 seconds. Then stop it, open the water supply and restart.

I did one other issue that acted similarly. A wire on the fuel solenoid was loose and it was not allowing fuel to flow into the engine. Apparently, if vibrated loose after running a bit.

Anyway, I'd be sure you are getting fuel on the injector side of the HP pump by cracking the injectors open as suggested above.

EXCELLENT advice here.

My "old" (1985) NL 20 kw gen would exhibit similar symptoms and it was always a priming issue for me.

I too have a priming pump that not only feeds the port side gen, but also my main engines. I also have an electric fuel pump inline for each generator as it has to pump the fuel UP to my generators approximately 36 inches.

 

[Cricket]

Had a similar issue with our Phasor last summer after not being used for a few days/week. After doing the normal stuff (filters, racor rebuild, changed electric pump, etc) couldn't figure out why the filter was draining back to the tank just enough. Finally found a tiny crack in a fuel hose that was pretty hidden, funny thing is it wasn't leaking any fuel, just letting air in while sitting. Nothing like a few 4am injector cracking sessions to start your day. BOATS.......

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have that filtration set up on my NL home standby generator. Anything I've ever gotten from Tony has worked fine first time out and thereafter.

 

[Chasemmc]

Sorry for dropping off the face of the earth. Health issues once again reared its ugly head and took me out of action. But, Yippee !! I'm on the mend.
Had the opportunity to take another look at the NL generator and noticed that the racor site bowl was half empty. So therefore it looks like a fuel starvation issue. I have attached the pix.

So since the fuel bowl is half empty, I would reason that the restriction is between the racor and fuel tank. Checked the fuel level in the tanks. Have 950g on board in two tanks holding 1k g.

If I take off the feed line and blow air through it, do you think it could dislodge a blockage?

Also noticed that the drain on the bottom of the racor is weeping fuel. Not enough to drip, but enough to be wet.

How would I re- fill the line to the racor?
Regards installing a aftermarket 12v fuel pump, where would you install that, before or after the racor? When not turned on, does fuel flow through the pump or is it better to install in an outside loop with isolation valves?

As always, thanks for the advice. I do read them all even if my damn body takes me out of the running periodically.

Thanks again, Mark

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You may not have a restriction, just a leak. Air is getting in there. Probably the o-ring at the T-handle or the lid gasket. I'd check those first. Maybe a line is letting air in at a connection before the Racor. Put the fuel pump after the Racor, that's what Racor says to do.

 

[bostonhatteras]

So since the fuel bowl is half empty[/QUOTE]

oh, be an optimist. It looks half full to me.