Lifting rails

[rsmith]

I had a friend that repowered a 53c with 12ti motors but didnt get much speed increase until he installed 3" full length lifting rails. I'v thought about it over the years but dont want another piece of wood on the boat to rot. Especialy below the waterline. At the time they were making them out of mahogany. Ive seen several on custom boats torn off by the travel lift slings. I think with the price of fuel and the extra speed and quicker plane its time to look at them again. Any one had any expieriences with new materials and fastening methods? IPE,Poly, pvc. Size and downward angle? Costs? At the time 1983 John Rybovitch quoted me $7500 as he was the only yard at the time that I would trust to do the work. They knew the boat because the first owner had it delivered to them to be outfitted and customised. But I dont have any updated numbers since then especialy with new material #s. As many of you might not be aware the gen 1 50c has a 3" wood rub rail that has been a major sorce of rot. Ive replaced it twice the last time with IPE which should last forever. Ray Meyers told me once that hatt thought a fiberglass rubrail would crack with the weight of a 50' boat impacting the dock so they thought the wood one would be easier to fix and be sort of sacrificial. Its been a PITA. BTW the '69 50c used the 45 aluminum rail since it was almost twice the weight of the 45 those crushed when they hit the dock.

 

[C. Edmund]

Out of curiosity, what kind of performance did your friend get when he did install the lifting rails / strakes?

 

[rsmith]

Out of curiosity, what kind of performance did your friend get when he did install the lifting rails / strakes?

53c "Hey-Bett" owned by Geo Straummuller out of Cape May Nj.
The boat was a 73 he did the engines in 76 12/n525hp to 12/ti 650hp
remember this was pre gps days so speed was calculated loran bearing to loran(lorans didnt calculate speed at the time) bearing 18kts with n's 22 with ti's 24 with rails all at 2150rpm.
I hear a lot of peeps on this forum talking about running reduced rpms to prolong engine life. I dont know what sientific data they base that on. Its common knoledge that any engine, aircraft, marine car, offroad 90% of the wear is on startup(good case for preoilers and block heaters) I cant see any advantage to operating below DD's recomendation of 200 rpm off wot. To me and its just my opinion the engines sound better at 2100rpm. If the theory is the engines will last a certain # of turns its taking you longer to get there so whats the point. On the bottom end I've trolled thousands of hours at 850-900 rpm 8.5 -9 kts almost 1nmpg clear the engines every several hours but thats it. The last few years since Walkers Cay was destroyed we troll almost all the way to marsh harbor (about 200 mi) 24hrs.
My 43 year old 12/n's just hit 8000hrs and run as good as they did in 1967.
Lack of use kills more engines than anything else.

 

[C. Edmund]

53c "Hey-Bett" owned by Geo Straummuller out of Cape May Nj.
The boat was a 73 he did the engines in 76 12/n525hp to 12/ti 650hp
remember this was pre gps days so speed was calculated loran bearing to loran(lorans didnt calculate speed at the time) bearing 18kts with n's 22 with ti's 24 with rails all at 2150rpm.
I hear a lot of peeps on this forum talking about running reduced rpms to prolong engine life. I dont know what sientific data they base that on. Its common knoledge that any engine, aircraft, marine car, offroad 90% of the wear is on startup(good case for preoilers and block heaters)
My 43 year old 12/n's just hit 8000hrs and run as good as they did in 1967.
Lack of use kills more engines than anything else.

Some interesting stuff there, but I am not sure I understand the improvement with the rails -- maybe clarify.

And do you have pre oilers and block heaters on your DD's?

 

[rsmith]

Some interesting stuff there, but I am not sure I understand the improvement with the rails -- maybe clarify.

And do you have pre oilers and block heaters on your DD's?

2 kts with the rails as much as he got from the repower also it dried the boat up a little and was more stable even dead in the water. When its less than
60^ I put a heater in the engine room over night. I always parallel start(cold starts) and roll the engines over with the shutdowns on until I get pressure up on the gauges.Ive got all mechanical gauges on the bridge including the tachs so what u see is what you have.

 

[C. Edmund]

2 kts with the rails as much as he got from the repower also it dried the boat up a little and was more stable even dead in the water. When its less than
60^ I put a heater in the engine room over night. I always parallel start(cold starts) and roll the engines over with the shutdowns on until I get pressure up on the gauges.Ive got all mechanical gauges on the bridge including the tachs so what u see is what you have.

I would assume there was a slight increase in fuel efficiency and reduction in time to plane with the rails.

I have mechanical gauges on the bridge -- tell me more about your shut down and start up?

 

[yachtsmanbill]

The PO of mine had laminated teak rails installed in Ft likkerdale in the 80's. The slings went right aft of the scarf joint. That was remediated by my making a backing block above the rail. No mas problemos. They were affixed with 5200 and 1/4 bolts and nuts on 6 inch centers.
The OEM aft spray rails were teak also and STILL ROTTED. I pulled them last winter and had Tom Slane make me a set. Each side is 21 feet long so these were made in FOUR pieces. They are a tad smaller than the OEM rails but VERY stout. Probably weigh about 30-40 lbs per section. They were bedded 100 % with 5200 and fastened with 1/4-20 flat head screws drilled and tapped into the 1 inch thick glass and capped with the 1" SS rubstrakes.
They came gelcoated and needed painting. The 4 pcs were about 3K plus $400 shipping. Call Slane Marine for a nice chat with Tom and tell him I sent you! Check out the pics on the Big Chill thred here. ws

 

[rsmith]

I would assume there was a slight increase in fuel efficiency and reduction in time to plane with the rails.

I have mechanical gauges on the bridge -- tell me more about your shut down and start up?

Its physicly a little complicated but I setup the start and parallel switches on the cockpit controls so I could hit the starter and parallel switch with one hand with the other I hold down the stop until I see oil press on the gauge then I release the stop button to let the engine start. Some peeps will say that the fuel from the injector spray will wash the oil off the cylinder walls but the fuel is a lubricant also so at least the liners are wet and not dry when the engine fires.
Willy what material did slane make your rails out of? We bought our boat in Ft Liquordale I spent a lot of time there. Kept the boat on Navaro isle off Las Olas At a friend of ours house. Used to be Joe Namaths place,always had the girls coming around looking for Joe,as if they knew him.I just hated it. NOT!haha

 

[REBrueckner]

You can make various type rails from solid PVC....lift,spray,etc....has been discussed on these forums previously....

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Slane has the perfect molds and they include the correct cambers' to match the hull sides. He also included a scarf cut that was a perfect match when installed. I couldnt have duplicated that cut nearly as nice, not to mention the dust involved. Chopped glass and two machine screws (one from the front and one from the back) made a dang near perfect joint for a 20 foot long rail.
The molds were lined with about 1/8" of white gelcoat (generic white) then partially layed up with 1/2 of glass resin and chopped fiber. After that set up, a 1-1/2 diameter core plug was set in. Its some strong high density foam stuff BTW. Once that was in it was encapsulated with resin and then the last 3/4" was chopped glass again.
Looking at a cross section, you had the V with a concave top with a 1/2 rail for contact on each side. Even the two contact rails had a curve ground into them for almost a 100% contact area. Nothing short of an outstanding, proffessional job! THANKS TOM if yer lurking!
The rails were drilled and countersunk (located by the mold on 6 inch centers) at 5/16 and attached with 1/4 machine screws drilled and tapped into the boat. I hung them on 6 inch long steel studs, caulked them and squeezed them down with nuts and washers. The 5/16 holes allowed for some adjustment. After they were down, I pulled each stud and replaced it with a screw with 5200, hence, perfect position and alignment. The next day I was going to install the rub strakes and about 2 of the screws were on center with the strake screws. I could not unscrew the machine screws short of causing troubles so I left them in place and drilled and tapped 10/24 screws for the trim where necessary. ws

 

[rsmith]

Slane has the perfect molds and they include the correct cambers' to match the hull sides. He also included a scarf cut that was a perfect match when installed. I couldnt have duplicated that cut nearly as nice, not to mention the dust involved. Chopped glass and two machine screws (one from the front and one from the back) made a dang near perfect joint for a 20 foot long rail.
The molds were lined with about 1/8" of white gelcoat (generic white) then partially layed up with 1/2 of glass resin and chopped fiber. After that set up, a 1-1/2 diameter core plug was set in. Its some strong high density foam stuff BTW. Once that was in it was encapsulated with resin and then the last 3/4" was chopped glass again.
Looking at a cross section, you had the V with a concave top with a 1/2 rail for contact on each side. Even the two contact rails had a curve ground into them for almost a 100% contact area. Nothing short of an outstanding, proffessional job! THANKS TOM if yer lurking!
The rails were drilled and countersunk (located by the mold on 6 inch centers) at 5/16 and attached with 1/4 machine screws drilled and tapped into the boat. I hung them on 6 inch long steel studs, caulked them and squeezed them down with nuts and washers. The 5/16 holes allowed for some adjustment. After they were down, I pulled each stud and replaced it with a screw with 5200, hence, perfect position and alignment. The next day I was going to install the rub strakes and about 2 of the screws were on center with the strake screws. I could not unscrew the machine screws short of causing troubles so I left them in place and drilled and tapped 10/24 screws for the trim where necessary. ws

Thanks for the info Willy you got any pics?

 

[yachtsmanbill]

2376 pics on the "BIG CHILL" and "DEFROST SLOWLY" threds... read and enjoy

 

[jim rosenthal]

There were shaped PVC rails available a few years back which I think were called Speedrails. I don't know if they are still made. They had a concave lower section which was supposed to deflect water downwards. Seems to me that a friend tried them out on a 36 Hatteras, but I can't recall if they made a difference with speed.

I'd suggest that if you want to know what your engines are doing, and what rpm and load they are happiest at, install Turbocators, which are a combination boost/pyrometer gauge available from Isspro, Inc, who are in (I think) Washington state or Oregon- someplace on the West Coast. (they also sell individual boost and pyro meters, but these are less expensive and take up less room on the gauge panel) If you don't have turbos, then all you need is EGT gauges. Especially with modern diesels, which are squeezing a lot of power out of rather small cubic inch engines, the information from these readings is helpful. As the boat planes and the engines get to their sweet spot, the EGT drops and the boost goes up. I don't pretend to be an authority on this, but those who are (engine manufacturing engineers, install reviewers, professional repower shops) all use them, and I note that on pre-warranty reviews of an engine install, the people who check out the install and seatrial the boat will instrument the engines using boost gauges and pyrometers of their own. That means something in my estimation. I think airplane engines also use them to monitor performance as well.