Freeing a Stuck Reversing Valve on AC

[Angela]

On my newer CrapAir unit, it appears the reversing valve is stuck. It will operate and blow heat like I've died and gone to hell, but it won't go the other direction and cool. Condensing unit runs, but just won't push the gas back the other way. Unit was new in December 2007, so I think it might still be under warranty, but I can't find a competent CruisAir-approved technician for warranty work in Miami. I've asked CruisAir for advice, but I'm still waiting on a response. Do you guys have any clue as to how I can fix this myself? The magnetic coil in the solenoid valve wasn't working, and I've just put a new one on there...still no joy.

Whatever happened to "quality"? My 29 year old CruisAir units look great and run like Olympic champions - the new CruisAir stuff is crap and has brought me nothing but torture and grief.

 

[34Hatt]

Try tapping it and cycle it also. Just don't get to carried away hitting it.

 

[Dustoff44]

I agree the rubber mallet works like a charm

 

[Angela]

If the reversing valve is where I think it is, it's buried in a rat's nest of wires and tubing and I'd need a teeny tiny hammer to tap on it.

What I can say, is that I will not buy CruisAir again. Ed and I are noodling the idea of installing 4 self contained units in place of this monster (and they won't be CruisAir either!). We need to calculate the required size and the electric draw.

 

[Angela]

When I go to the master switch, the HEAT/COOL switch in the master SR that contols the entire system as to whether it's in heat mode or cool mode, I can hear a click (coming from the ER where the condensing unit is located) from OFF to HEAT, and another click going back to OFF when I move the switch back and forth. No click between OFF and COOL. The click occurs without any equipment firing up which is normal.

For those of you who have had a stuck valve, is this a symptom of a stuck valve, or could this somehow be electrical at the valve, but not at the switch. The reason I rule out the switch is because when in COOL, the termostats do kick the compresor on when you lower the temp on the dial. If the main switch didn't work, it wouldn't know it was in COOL mode and tell the condensor to come on.

 

[krush]

Start with a known good. Get yourself a multi-meter and make sure when the thing is in cool mode that power is getting to the valve. Got power, move on.

The valve doesn't actually operate solely by the solenoid--the solenoid opens a small pilot hole and the pressure in the line actually moves the "plunger". What this means is that you need pressure in the system to "stroke" the valve.

What I would do is turn on the system and have the compressor running. Then I would get to the wiring on the valve and stroke it back and forth. You can do this at the thermostat, but you need to make sure the compressor stays on continuously. When you switch from heat to cool, you go through off and the compressor may not like that.

While stroking bang it with something metallic.

But as always, check the simple stuff first.

 

[MikeP]

Yesterday, while working on the boat I walked up to the parking area to get something out of the car. There was an ac guy in his truck. I had been needing a new 230VAC trigger - my forward ac unit would not turn on the sea water pump. I bought a trigger from him (30 bucks) and we ended up talking about ac. He's a Cruisair and Webasto dealer.

He said what some have said here...current Cruisair is junk compared to the old stuff and their warranty is now based on time of purchase AND hours of use. He recently was called to work on one that was within the warranty period as far as purchase date but was over warranty on hours of use by TWO HOURS and the factory would not authorize warranty repair. To service the new stuff he has to plug a computer into it which reads out all the appropriate data - sort of like OBDII on your car. So if the computer shows you are a minute out of the "hours" warranty or shows anything that indicates a "user error," whatever that might be, NO Coverage!

They are built totally to price point, with quality designed to get the equipment through the warrantly. As he pointed out, lots of folks have ac units purchased in the 60s that are still running. You WON"T buy one today that will be running in 2050...You'll be lucky if it's running in 2015!

Thought it was interesting coming from a dealer...

 

[Maynard Rupp]

The reversing valve on ours is in plain view. It is a little 1 1/2" cube thing that is mounted sorta crooked on the front of the unit. Angella, this problem sounds like a wiring or thermostat problem to me. Those things almost never stick in the heat mode because the units are almost exclusivly used to cool, especially in Miami. You could move to the Great Lakes. You would be much happier with that heating unit.

 

[captddis]

Yesterday, while working on the boat I walked up to the parking area to get something out of the car. There was an ac guy in his truck. I had been needing a new 230VAC trigger - my forward ac unit would not turn on the sea water pump. I bought a trigger from him (30 bucks) and we ended up talking about ac. He's a Cruisair and Webasto dealer.

He said what some have said here...current Cruisair is junk compared to the old stuff and their warranty is now based on time of purchase AND hours of use. He recently was called to work on one that was within the warranty period as far as purchase date but was over warranty on hours of use by TWO HOURS and the factory would not authorize warranty repair. To service the new stuff he has to plug a computer into it which reads out all the appropriate data - sort of like OBDII on your car. So if the computer shows you are a minute out of the "hours" warranty or shows anything that indicates a "user error," whatever that might be, NO Coverage!

They are built totally to price point, with quality designed to get the equipment through the warrantly. As he pointed out, lots of folks have ac units purchased in the 60s that are still running. You WON"T buy one today that will be running in 2050...You'll be lucky if it's running in 2015!

Thought it was interesting coming from a dealer...

Everything went to hell when Dometic bought Cruisair . When Cruisair was privately owned, they were one of the finest companies to deal with. It is epidemic in the industry that excellent companies that made an excellent product are being gobbled up by big conglomerates. Then the great companies are absorbed and you only have the option of the inferior junk product. Hynautic and Morse being bought up by Teleflex is a perfect example. Try to get Hynautic parts anymore.

Same goes for Detroit Diesel. More and more DD parts are being discontinued and a lot of parts have increased in cost by 400%. I guess MTU thinks we will buy new engines from them when the price parts out of our reach or just plain can't get parts.

 

[captddis]

Start with a known good. Get yourself a multi-meter and make sure when the thing is in cool mode that power is getting to the valve. Got power, move on.

The valve doesn't actually operate solely by the solenoid--the solenoid opens a small pilot hole and the pressure in the line actually moves the "plunger". What this means is that you need pressure in the system to "stroke" the valve.

What I would do is turn on the system and have the compressor running. Then I would get to the wiring on the valve and stroke it back and forth. You can do this at the thermostat, but you need to make sure the compressor stays on continuously. When you switch from heat to cool, you go through off and the compressor may not like that.

While stroking bang it with something metallic.

But as always, check the simple stuff first.

On marine units the Rev valve is energized in the heat mode. No power in cool mode.

 

[Angela]

The reversing valve on ours is in plain view. It is a little 1 1/2" cube thing that is mounted sorta crooked on the front of the unit. Angella, this problem sounds like a wiring or thermostat problem to me. Those things almost never stick in the heat mode because the units are almost exclusivly used to cool, especially in Miami. You could move to the Great Lakes. You would be much happier with that heating unit.

I doubt all four thermostats that go to that unit all went bad at once. The thermostats don't control the heat/cool mode - there is a "master switch" that changes the mode. All four thermostats work for providing heat. The last time this unit was run was in January when I ran heat for a few nights. If I ever get this thing un-stuck, I'll NEVER put it back in heat mode again!

I wasn't clear earlier - the solenoid coil I replaced goes to the valve that dumps the gas off when running only the smaller units in the line. This is a modulating condensing unit.

To work on this, I need to be in two places at once. When Naomi and Susan come over later, if I don't make any progress on the electric side, I'll have them giggle the switch in the master while I toy with the beast in the ER. (It's a full moon - we three girls are going for a nighttime sail down the coast on the Hobie!)

 

[krush]

On marine units the Rev valve is energized in the heat mode. No power in cool mode.

I now remember you saying this before after I said the same exact thing LOL. I was a couple beers in.

Truth is I always check the wiring diagram because some things are powered cool, others are powered heat...some 24 VAC, others full 120 or 240 VAC. Different brands do different things, so I always do some research or figuring first. I think trane often does energized cool, others do energized heat.

 

[captddis]

I now remember you saying this before after I said the same exact thing LOL. I was a couple beers in.

Truth is I always check the wiring diagram because some things are powered cool, others are powered heat...some 24 VAC, others full 120 or 240 VAC. Different brands do different things, so I always do some research or figuring first. I think trane often does energized cool, others do energized heat.

Only married a week and you are already drinking?

 

[krush]

Only married a week and you are already drinking?

Sadly the Mrs. shipped out to Guam yesterday for 2 years--so yes I'm drinking LOL. I should be out to visit her soon for a couple months. I like being a Navy wife.

 

[stormchaser]

Doesn't SOUND like a stuck reversing valve to me. I had one, when they stick, the units will come on, but just don't heat or cool properly. Also, the no-power position is cooling, I've never heard of one getting stuck in hat mode...not even sure if that's possible? I did eventually free mine up. What I did was turn it on, then manually disconnected the pwero to the vale, reconnected it, disconnected it and back and forth dozen, if not hundreds of times...it worked itself free eventually...now I make sure I put every unit into heat mode monthly during the summer and AC mode monthly during the winter...even if jsut for a minute or two.

If you end up going to self contained units, just be aware that they are a LOT louder. That's what I had on my trawler...loud but VERY reliable and very efficient. I could pump out 100+* vent temps when the harbor was iced over. Check out Mermaid brand AC: http://www.mmair.com/marine_division One of the best features is you CAN use a "marine" thermostat...but you can also use any regular household thermostat to control it. Quality is very high and they are designed from the start to be self-installed.

 

[Angela]

Doesn't SOUND like a stuck reversing valve to me. I had one, when they stick, the units will come on, but just don't heat or cool properly. Also, the no-power position is cooling, I've never heard of one getting stuck in hat mode...not even sure if that's possible? I did eventually free mine up. What I did was turn it on, then manually disconnected the pwero to the vale, reconnected it, disconnected it and back and forth dozen, if not hundreds of times...it worked itself free eventually...now I make sure I put every unit into heat mode monthly during the summer and AC mode monthly during the winter...even if jsut for a minute or two.

If you end up going to self contained units, just be aware that they are a LOT louder. That's what I had on my trawler...loud but VERY reliable and very efficient. I could pump out 100+* vent temps when the harbor was iced over. Check out Mermaid brand AC: http://www.mmair.com/marine_division One of the best features is you CAN use a "marine" thermostat...but you can also use any regular household thermostat to control it. Quality is very high and they are designed from the start to be self-installed.

Dave, my unit comes on, everything runs, and just doesn't cool. I think it's stuck in heat, not cool. It will blow heat nicely in the heat mode. Unfortunately, in this situation, electricity is not my forte. I usually call upon Ed or Pascal for using that meter thingy, and they're both out of town.

As for the self-contained units, is there any reason why it would be bad to build a lead soundshield to drop over them (like a box) to absorb some of the noise? That's another skill I have learned lately - I made the genny a REAL sound shield instead of the crap Westerbeke calls a sound shield. I like the fact that a failure in a self-contained unit doesn't take out the entire system for all of the staterooms, and the fact that I can install the self-contained unit myself. Also, manufacturers of these self-contained units now boast about how quiet and effcient they've become. Anyone got any experience with these newer ones on the topic of noise? Thanks for the Mermaid link. I'll check it out.

 

[captddis]

While I am not really a Mermaid fan [unless they have blonde hair].
I like their heating system that uses a heat strip inside the blower. When in the heat cycle neither the comp or pump run. No worries about freezing the condensor and the heat can be used out of the water.

 

[captddis]

Dave, my unit comes on, everything runs, and just doesn't cool. I think it's stuck in heat, not cool. It will blow heat nicely in the heat mode. Unfortunately, in this situation, electricity is not my forte. I usually call upon Ed or Pascal for using that meter thingy, and they're both out of town.

As for the self-contained units, is there any reason why it would be bad to build a lead soundshield to drop over them (like a box) to absorb some of the noise? That's another skill I have learned lately - I made the genny a REAL sound shield instead of the crap Westerbeke calls a sound shield. I like the fact that a failure in a self-contained unit doesn't take out the entire system for all of the staterooms, and the fact that I can install the self-contained unit myself. Also, manufacturers of these self-contained units now boast about how quiet and effcient they've become. Anyone got any experience with these newer ones on the topic of noise? Thanks for the Mermaid link. I'll check it out.

If you cover them , no air will circulate. no cool or heat.

 

[stormchaser]

No need to be an electrics expert to do what I did...I'm sure not. The reversin valve will look like this:

but the 3 pipes will be facing up and it will be painted white. You can see the power connectors in the pic. While the unit is running, disconnect one wire...wait a few seconds, reconnect for a few second, disconnect...and keep going.

I wouldn't build a shield around the unit..it needs air circulation for the coils.

 

[stormchaser]

While I am not really a Mermaid fan [unless they have blonde hair].
I like their heating system that uses a heat strip inside the blower. When in the heat cycle neither the comp or pump run. No worries about freezing the condensor and the heat can be used out of the water.

Have you had a bad experience with them? What was wrong with them? I've never heard one bad word about them. In the island/sailboat cruising community, they are THE unit to have or at lest WERE about 2 years ago...

As for the heating strip...Cruisair offers that too...its the aux heat option. I have it on the new systems we just put in. . I can run reverse cycle heat, then when water temps get too low, run the aux heat and have no water pumps running. Nice to have both.