Detroit Diesel 16v92 DDEC 1993 with 4,000 hours.....

[northshoreone]

So here we go, engine survey comes back great but, there is no previous service as it relates to a tune up ever being done during those hours. Do you think that the injectors are worn enough in 4k hours to warrant replacing? .......a question posed to the Detroit Diesel mech. ......which was meet with a, "well, would improve performance some and could cut start up smoke a bit" Or, do I have the valves adjusted and call it a day? Or, just continue to run it as is....?
FYI, engines smoke at first start for about a min. or so then clear up. Engines fire right up, of course with block heaters on. On sea trial they performed at rated RPM's and fuel burn was pretty close to what you would expect.
What do the Detroit experts here advise?

 

[Cricket]

I'm no longer a Detroit guy, but if it's me I would have the valve lash done and leave the injectors alone. Would be more concerned with the age of the fuel and gear coolers, heat exchangers, exhaust risers.

 

[Boatsb]

If I just had an engine survey done I'd be asking the surveyor not the guys on the forum.

If there's evidence of injector wear have them replaced.If they didn't test a few shame on them. There's only 32 of them. How did they miss them all. If there's a full engine survey to work with look over the results and follow what the guy you chose to pay for his expertise says.

 

[northshoreone]

Well there is the $2,500 survey and the $6k plus survey....I elected to go with the lesser of the two evils which didn't go into the injector investigation part of the survey.

 

[Pascal]

Seems to me like a lot of hours on motors that are very expensive to rebuild. Smoking for a minute after start with block heaters seems like a long time. Can you look at the liners on these ? Considering the hours and what s at stake, I d probably want compression checks.

When the boat I used to run was on the market, people were afraid of 5000 hours on 15 year old 3412Es! But these would scare me...

 

[northshoreone]

I already bought it! For the price I paid for it I could rebuild them and still be whole. I'm just trying to run it until it needs rebuilding. I'm attempting to do whats right to extend it's usable life as best I can at this point. With that said, I'm not looking to throw money out the window at anything that won't extend its current state usable life either. The WW Williams Detroit mech. said they would more than likely continue to run past the time I would use it! Fingers crossed that it makes it another 1k hours or so!

 

[krush]

Many of these DDECs smoke at start and even need a block heater to start in warm weather. Look at the compression ratio spec's. Don't forget to ask the diesel gods!

 

[saltshaker]

If these are DDECs then the need the block heaters for start up but they shouldn’t smoke and definitely not for a minute. If the injectors truly are original and never touched and there are 4000 hours and never overhauled, I’d send out all injectors and do a thorough inspection of each cylinder when the injectors are out. That’s a lot of hours for 16V92s so I’m guessing she’s been run very lightly. For $2500 you should have gotten the cylinders scoped. I’d even expect a compression test for that much

 

[northshoreone]

I really have not been impressed with what ww Williams did for the money. I was in FL during the hurricane when the survey was done and not present. Which I would never normally do. They missed the fact that the slow and fast idle didn't work correctly and engine rpms didn't match then as well. From the report all they did was send in oil samples, coolant samples......witch I knew would fail ...and variefy it reached rated rpm. Really not much for 2.5k!!

 

[Pascal]

How about temperatures? Creeping at high speed? The zurvey and sea trial should include a detailed chart every 100 or 200 rpm

 

[jim rosenthal]

Well, if you got the boat cheap enough, you can afford to do a few things. I think after 4000 hours I'd do what Scott said and send them all out. I'd also get a different company to look at them. What did they do for $2500? A shame you weren't able to be there.

 

[saltshaker]

I’m not a fan of having a big shop do a survey. They’re typically overpriced an rarely do a thorough job. Most are not that focused on the marine market.

 

[northshoreone]

The temps didn't creep and everything checked out within spec. per the survey. They had the computer equipment to read the engines underway and not many people do anymore. When I asked about the start up smoke they said for the hours on the engines that wasn't all that shocking to them. Like I said, the smoke does clear up after about a min and while running underway after that there is no smoke at all! The season up here was winding down fast and my trip to FL to deal with hurricane prep. had to happen. I'm just wrestling with if its worth about $10k ....my est. ...to do valves and replace injectors now? If I do and a rebuild does happen at some point I guess that it would reduce the cost of the rebuild by at least the cost of the injectors.

 

[Boatsb]

Id say get the injectors done for 2 reasons.

1) they probably will improve the running of the engine.

2) a bad injector can cause damage.

Pay now or pay later is your question. It seems paying now will get you better odds on a good season next year if the ice melts.

 

[Cricket]

Couple of thoughts from a former DD guy who saw the light and became a CAT guy. Btw, we had 5,000 trouble free hours of 750hp 8v92 before rebuild and then never could keep them together post rebuild. If you're going to do the injectors make sure you don't use the Reliabuilts, they were crap 16 years ago and even worse now. If/when you do the rebuilds I would do the injectors again because if something goes bad with one of the old ones the shop probably will void any warranty repair, easy way out for them. Still think you need to be worried about the age of the coolers.

 

[tom5518]

If you're going to do the injectors make sure you don't use the Reliabuilts, they were crap 16 years ago and even worse now.

I've heard the same thing about rebuilt ones. My half-assed opinion only, but what I would do is run it for the next season as-is and then decide if it should be done. It's not like you will be fishing her hard and running a million hours in one season.

 

[northshoreone]

I talked to my Detroit DDEC guy in FL this afternoon about the engines and he said that its allot of hours on those cylinder liners! He also said that the smoke at start up was not a big deal and he would run it as is until it HAS to be rebuilt. He said that adjusting the valves would give very marginal performance change and if there was an injector issue it would already be apparent. He also stated that at rebuild you would have to change injectors again to get the engine warranty as stated here in a previous post. That being said, it looks like I run her till she drop's!

 

[SeaEric]

I talked to my Detroit DDEC guy in FL this afternoon about the engines and he said that its allot of hours on those cylinder liners! He also said that the smoke at start up was not a big deal and he would run it as is until it HAS to be rebuilt. He said that adjusting the valves would give very marginal performance change and if there was an injector issue it would already be apparent. He also stated that at rebuild you would have to change injectors again to get the engine warranty as stated here in a previous post. That being said, it looks like I run her till she drop's!

That's what I would do~!

 

[Bertramguy]

I had the same situation with 1292's with 3800 hours. They smoked at start up until they were loaded, they lit immediately with or without block heaters (Southern California). They ran flawlessly made 2350 RPM loaded, no temp creep and my pyros never ran more than 650 - 700 degrees. I ran the boat for about 18 months and put about 400 hours on it. They never used oil and leaked very little. I'm kind of a turn coat so burn me at the stake but these motors are in a Bertram 54 not the lightest ride out there. My Detroit guy basically told me the same thing regarding injectors, it wouldn't fix the issues that I had. I ended up biting the bullet and had both motors in framed for a couple reasons, I didn't really want to head south to Mexico with old iron, unknown cooling systems, and at least on the west coast some parts are getting a little hard to find, Plus I was planning on a bunch of interior work. I feel like I reset the clock, however they run the same except they don't smoke at cold start. For what I spent on the rebuilds and what I gained in performance it's literally lighting thousand dollar bills on fire. For what it's worth I got a hell of a deal on the boat too, means nothing compared to what you will spend resetting the clock! I ended up replacing 3 cylinder heads and they were very hard to locate, all of the sea water cooling tubes that run down the side of the motors had to be custom fabricated, those were the two extraordinary expenses that I didn't plan on. There are a lot of while I'm there you might as well replace items too. These are non DDEC motors by the way. Hey every time I fire those bad boys up it's like getting a hug from Pamela Anderson !

 

[johnjen50]

Coolers, coolers, coolers. I am in the process of rebuilding my port engine because the intercooler let go on my 8v71 and seized it over the layup period. I've had the boat three years so made the decision to go with a new long block 871 from Detroit, and as was previously said "wind the clock back". Everything pressure tested well at the survey, and there was no noticeable steam out the exhaust, so the coolers can kind of be like hypertension............silent killers. If the boat is new to you, pop your intercoolers and test them, as they are salt water cooled, and test the other coolers as well.