Anchoring during a bad storm

[Jaxfishgyd]

Let me first give some info...

Am a Native Florida boy, been thru 3 hurricanes, am a repairman with BellSouth and have done storm repairs starting with Camille in 1969, Andrew in S.Fla. , Hugo in S. C., Ivan in Pensacola and (soon) Katrina along with many in between.

HURRICANES SCARE ME... And I admit it.Nor do I apologize for it.

On my boat here in Jacksonville, I have 300' of 3/4" line with 40' of 3/8" chain. My secondary line is 200' of 5/8" line also with 40' of 3/8" chain. I also have a spool of 150' 3/4" line with 20' 3/8" chain to go onto it. AND I have another 150' of 5/8" line again with 20' of 3/8" chain.

For anchors I have a 66lb Bruce, a 55lb Delta Fast Set, 32lb Fortress Aluminum, and a 29lb Guardian Aluminum.

I live on the Ortega River (on the boat) which has many bends and most of the land is 10'-30' high so I can "hide" behind land no matter what direction of the wind. The water depth runs from 5'-30' depending on where I'm at. And is heavy mud.

Staying at the dock is NOT an option as I have a 43' Hatt but am in a 40' slip. Only have 18" between the boat and both rear pilings. Plus even though it's a floating dock, a surge of 8' will put the dock over the pilings.

My first choice is to go to where the river is about 100' wide and tie off onto the trees, and maybe even putting an anchor out bow and/or stern, depending on where I"m at.

The problem with this is, a lot of boats will go there and if one boat breaks lose.......And that happened 2 years ago when we only had strong winds hit here from a hurricane that passed way west of us in the Gulf and we didn't even leave the slip. A shrimp boat broke lose and caused 7 boats to be heavily damaged (I did have 16 lines out all over the dock and to many pilings, most people laughed at me till 6:00am Sunday morning when they were rocking and rolling and their SMALL dock lines were breaking... I had 3/4" lines out).

Know this is long, but here's my main question.

Somewhere many years ago in a boating magazine, I read where someone was caught in a typhoon in the Pacific on some island, put out his anchors, realized he had an extra one with rode so attached it to one of his main anchors by connecting it to the chain of his main, Thereby giving him two anchors two chains and double the rode so if one anchor should pull the second one was still dug in.

And he said that was what saved his boat and life.


Second choice for me is to anchor on the lee side of land with anchors out. My "game plan" would be to put my main rode out and then place my secondary and third lines out 90 degrees either side of it.

I could then put my 4th rode and anchor off one of these three lines. Giving me a tandem anchor system off one rode.

Again realize I'm talking aboat a MAJOR storm hitting us (last hurricane here was in 1964, so while some say we are in a "safe area" I look at it as we are "due" soon).

And I"m not talking about 'saving my boat" but what my best chances are.

Just something for you to think about.

 

[double eagle]

do you
have the option of having the boat hauled out.???
it is not that you dont take the proper means to protect your boat ...it's the ones who dont...
I had pilings put in and had them put 1 1/2 ft higher than the contractor was going to ...he said I didnt need that much...but he didnt have a boat..
go figure ...
bill

 

[Genesis]

Yep.

Basically, if you have the hooks, the STRONGEST way to do it is the set them INLINE on one rode. The first anchor has chain attached, ideally 50' or so, then the second anchor, then more chain, then the rode. Scope should be as much as 20:1 if you have the room for it, but in NO CASE can it be less than 10:1 at the maximum expected surge plus 20%. If you end up short-scoped you WILL drag!

This is EXTREMELY strong. Take this to a bridle to the forecleats through the chocks and chafe guards on the rail - this distributes the load to both cleats evenly. The only exception is if you have a samson post (never seen one on a Hatt) that is part of the keel - then you go there, as that's the strongest part of the boat.

For chafe protection you want nylon tube strap ideally. Fire hose is an ok choice, but it does not allow water to soak through, and the lines can fail from internal heat. I've seen all sorts of things used for chafe protection, including multiple layers of denim. The key is to make sure the lines do not fail from chafing.

Make VERY SURE the bridle is long enough that it cannot contact the pulpit, or it will chafe through there very quickly.

3/4" line in good condition can take a total shock load of more than five TONS without parting.

If you really want to get nuts, get some 1" for mainline - the 3/4" is fine for your bridle, as there is distribution of the load on that.

Do not take a stern anchor - allow the boat to come around with the wind. You want the scope not only to insure you hold but also to give you LOTS of stretch - the shock loads in these situations are truly horrendous, and if you don't have enough stretch you'll rip out deck hardware if the anchor doesn't drag (and if you set two inline in a good bottom, it WON'T!)

A couple of charter fishing boats did this during Ivan here and they didn't move a millimeter. They DID lose both anchors though - they were buried so far into the bottom they could not be raised after the storm was over. Oh well - ground tackle is cheaper than boats.

If you can get up in a narrow, high canal then you have other options. One good one is to tie the bow to strong trees (mangroves work well if you have them) on one shore, take a big anchor to the bottom on the other side of the bow, and then take an anchor off the stern out to keep the stern from being blown ashore. Another option is to "nose up" on shore in the expected direction of the wind (bow to), tie to the trees, and then use a stern anchor to hold your stern aligned. Both of these options have been used with good success around here in BIG storms, including Ivan, and well-executed they work. Just make damn sure the tree(s) you go to will NOT be compromised - if they fail not only do you lose your tie-up but it may end up coming through your boat!

But - beware someone getting loose. You can do everything right but if you put just one pinball in the machine you're screwed. No matter how good of a job you do if someone gets fouled in your rode it'll get cut off and then you're doomed.

IMHO your best bet is somewhere you can nose up with high shorelines that is not big enough for someone else to do it right next to you - and get there first. That reduces the risk of the pinball machine effect.

That's what I've done with GIgabite, and it has worked out well - but my "hole" for this is privately owned (and I know the owner!)

Being hauled sounds good, but too many people I know that have done that have had their boats hit by flying LAND debris, some with severe damage. One guy here is STILL fixing fiberglass damage from Ivan - his boat was pelted with pieces of debris during the storm, most of which he never identified the source of. It beats being sunk but having pieces of your superstructure ripped open by flying roof pieces is not good either!

My preferred option is ALWAYS a well-protected slip with very tall pilings (vastly beyond expected surge range) and LOTS of width. Of course finding such a slip is damn near impossible.

 

[Tom Ipock]

I like this idea of the tandem anchor system a lot. It would seem that you are much less exposed to other vessels around snagging you. I have a similar anchor location well up some narrow rivers in NC much like Ortega river, and what we find is that when the houseboats and sailboats come up the river looking for refuge, when they see a big Hatteras anchored up they decide "this must be a good spot" and you wind up in a parking lot - and now it's too late to move. VERY FRUSTRATING
I use to set three bow anchors at 270 - 360 - 90 degrees as a Bahamian mooring, but once someone snags one of your three anchor lines, you are all tied up together with no bumpers between the boats, and it beats them together until the storm is over.
Much better idea with trailing tandem single line system.
Tom

 

[Traveler 45C]

I’ll consider myself lucky. I’m in a well-protected marina (one of the two marinas in Pensacola that survived Ivan), and I’ve got a 24’ wide slip with plenty of tie points.

For storms, I throw 3 anchors off the bow to keep me centered in the slip and away from the dock at my stern. One anchor is placed dead ahead, the others are put down 45 degrees of the bow, port and Stbd.

Working anchor: Fortress FX-23, 25’ of 3/8” chain on 5/8” line.
Storm anchors: Fortress FX-55 and a Delta 55, both on 20’of ½” chain on 7/8” line.
The bottom is soft mud and I have difficulty setting the Fortresses, even with the flukes set at 45 degrees. For Katrina, I tried setting them initially with a 2:1 scope and still had problems getting them to bite.

Jaxfishgyd, have you experienced this problem and if so, any solutions?

I’m considering replacing the Fortresses. I love the Delta; drop it and your done.

 

[Genesis]

I have a Delta 44 as a working anchor and its the jazz. Drop it and in it goes.

I've dove it and found it BURIED within a foot of where it fell. Love it.

Not big enough for storms though - I have two 75lb Danforths for that. They're HEAVY BEASTS but they will hold. Oh, and a FX-37 also - once its set it won't come out, but getting it to set can be fun at times.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I agree that the Fortress anchors sometimes don't hold well in soft mud. You might try a Spade, which are supposed to hold very well indeed in soft mud. I have one but it is a recent acquisition and havne't tried it yet.

 

[Tom Ipock]

It is hard to beat the Danforth - I have a pair of 60# danforths with an FX 125 broken down and stored for a "last resort" when it gets really bad. I have had similar problems with the aluminum anchor wanting to "float" and just not dig in like I want. Last boat we had a CQR as our main anchor, and while it worked well in Florida and the Bahamas in the sand, it was not a good choice in NC in the mud. If you give th Danforth a little scope, it will set and when it does, you can relax.
Tom

 

[Genesis]

Just be aware that with the Danforth if you deploy it in a really bad blow, you may not get it back.

After Ivan a number of these ended up so far into the seabed that they were impossible to retrieve.

But they DID hold.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

All very good replies......

The placing of the boat "in the trees" or in the narrow part of the canal is probably the "best and worst" thing for me to do, due to the number of others that do that (and like I said, most have no idea what they are doing nor have the lines to handle it,,, But the same ones DO have plenty of beer onboard for the hurricane partythey plan on having).

Anchoring somewhere in one of the bends in the river is my safest option....

Another thing I have ready to use is 12 25lb barbell weights. (nephew works at a gym) Again, I read this somewhere... They took the weights, secured them to the chains for added security.

Figure if I put a few on each chain (NOT on the line itself) it would offset the lack of chain.

Had a bridle line made 5 yrs ago(a month after we bought the boat and moved onboard) for the anchor lines to go on if a storm comes.

It is 3/4" and is ready to hook onto both bow cleats, on a 35' loop, then goes outside the railing to the two forward springline cleats then outside the rails to the two rear spring line cleats.

I had it made by a local company so each cleat will have a loop to go over the cleats, but is made so where the loop is, the main line has a second line spliced outside the loop is so IF the loop should break I still have 100% strength and it then goes to the next cleat.

Have PLENTY of chaft gear, ranging from plastic hose, garden hose, a THICK black rubber hose (over 3/4"thick sides) that I got from a constuction job. I can put the garden hose on (it's 1 1/4" diameter I got from a Palm tree nursery), then the 2" plastic hose, and then a 3" diameter, 3/4" thick black rubber hose (found it on the side of the road, NO IDEA what it's for) but is flexable.

Plus have 10 18" long 1" diameter "Taylor made" chafe guards to put on.

I can use any and all of the hoses inside each other, so am now seeing which ones will be the best to use at each location.

A cat 5 storm and none of this would really matter. I"m talking about a "normal" hurricane. On the up side, we're 35 miles inland and have a fighting chance.

Have both fuel tanks topped off, will fill the water tank just before the storm hits, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, have the"follow me tv" system for my satillite dish so we can watch tv after any storm.....(Would HATE for the Admiral to miss her soap shows)

 

[Genesis]

In a really serious storm the problem with chafe gear is that if it is not porous the line can fail due to internal heat (!)

What happens is that as the nylon is pulled the fibers pull against each other, and get hot. REAL hot. When they get too hot, they literally melt and the line fails - even though its well below breaking strength.

This problem is mitigated by a permeable chafe guard, as the rainfall wets the guard, which wets the line, and takes enough of the heat off to avoid failure through this route.

I used fire hose for Ivan, and am not sure I'd do it again for a really bad blow. When I came back to the boat there were burns through the rubber of the firehose. Not wear-through - burns. As in melted sections. The line was also physically damaged - when I unlaid the sections where the burns were, the internal damage was evident - there were melted sections internally (!)

We were very close to failure..... the lines involved got tossed, obviously.

Other thing to be aware of is that the closer the chocks are to the cleats they are paired with the less movement and thus chafe you get. The further away, the more. Thus, for really bad storms, you are best off if you can avoid using the chocks at all! Rub strakes, if entirely smooth, are better options for tying to a piling - and are on my list to install, as they eliminate the need for chafing protection on those lines. Spring cleats - ditto. For a bridle you may HAVE TO go through the chocks - be very careful with the multiple cleat arrangement, as that long line back to the spring cleats promotes the chafing problem at the chocks. What you're trying to avoid is a "sawing" motion on the line at the chock - the longer the line on the boat side of the chock between chock and cleat, the more of that motion you get as the line stretches, and the higher the risk of chafe failure.

For the stern lines you cannot avoid the need for chafe protection, because the cleats are below the rail and you have to go through one of the hawse pipes. Make darn sure those pipes are "clean" in terms of potential sharp edges, and nothing can "tear" at your lines.

 

[Tom Ipock]

Been thinking about the "tandem" anchor hookup discussed here with two anchors behind each other on same rode, and on first thought it sounded great - but - how would you hook the first anchor and chain (front) to the second anchor such to prevent the chain between the two from fowling the rear anchor? Would you think that to drill a hole in the bottom of the flukes to fit a shackle would work? Also pondering the difficulties if they broke loose during the blow, and you had to raise and reset with the second anchor still hooked to the first how would you get it in? Would it be more efficient to just drop both anchors on seperate rodes just a few feet apart? I still like this idea of having all your anchor power out in a straight line in front rather than building a spyder web to catch other drifters - just need to perfect the setup.
Tom

 

[Genesis]

It works fine - just hook it up to the usual attachment point on the back anchor.

If you have a Delta you can try to use the "tripline" attachment point, but I'm not sure I would. I'd be concerned that I might impair the holding of the front one doing that.

The idea is that the "front" anchor (the one in the middle) acts kind of like a kellet, but better, as it grabs the bottom too.

They won't foul each other; you do have to lower the rear (inline) one down rather than just drop it, but that's ok.

Lower both, then back down HARD to set them. As the stress rises the load will be taken by both.

Getting them back can be fun after the blow is over, but that's true of any solid rig in a truly severe storm. You have to be prepared to sacrifice the terminal end of the ground tackle (anchor and perhaps chain) in this situation if necessary, if you are unable to break it out.

 

[Traveler 45C]

I already had my sights set on a Delta 44 to replace my FX-23 as a working anchor. If anyone has one for sale…

I can tell ya’ it was not fun trying to get those Fortresses to set hours before that hurricane was to hit. I just wanted to get it done. The marina is full of soft mud and I can’t be messing around with these anymore. I need to get one of those big Danforths. My dock buddy has an old 100 pounder, impossible to retrieve with the dingy. It was buried 5’ down in the mud.

For chaff protection I have found that using 1’ rubber or vinyl hose, split up the middle works well. After my lines are set, the hoses slide right into place on the line, zip tie ‘em tight and your done. I figure that the split in the hose will allow enough water in the keep the line cool. I have not observed any burn marks on the lines after a storm.

 

[Genesis]

Call the Destin Fisherman's Coop for those big anchors.

They have the 75lb Danforth-style ones - most of the time they have a few in stock. If not, they can get them in a couple of days. They're not terribly expensive and are definitely worth having around.

Two of those in-line will not go ANYWHERE.

I got my Delta 44 from West, believe it or not. They had one sitting on the floor here.... I saw it and said "MINE!"

Great working anchor, but not big enough for storm service.

 

[Traveler 45C]

You got their number?

I got my Delta 55 from West and believe it or not, their price was the same as anywhere else I looked. Now for the Fortress, that’s another story. West wanted over $600; I found it on the net for $432. West did match the price though.

 

[Genesis]

850-654-4999 - Tell 'em Karl from Gigabite sent 'ya. They're huge "Hooker" anchors (Danforth types), and what the fishing fleet uses here for storms. I believe they're 75lbs each - they are DEFINITELY beasts.

I have two for exactly this purpose.

 

[Traveler 45C]

Yea, I was thinking about them trying to set my Fortresses…

 

[DickB]

Genesis: While I admit we don't encounter the "blows" in the NW that you do (and if we did, I'd be secure at my protected fresh water dock), I've found that in moderate blows, the boat surfs back and forth. To stop, I've thrown out a second anchor at about a 45 degree angle from the first. The advantage is that you get a more even directional pull from each anchor, and lower the risk of pulling either out.

In your model, how do you stop the boat from blowing all over the place, from side to side?

Dick

 

[Genesis]

Your surfing back and forth due to a difference between current and wind, most of the time. In a really serious blow this generally won't happen due to the extreme nature of the load and the fact that the "longest" vector is straight back from the wind direction.

Bridling also helps stop this.

If you set two anchors (one off each bow cleat) and one fails you're in trouble immediately, because now you will take the load off the bow on the one side, and that will cause you to "weathercock." In a really serious blow this usually leads to the boat coming loose because now some of the wind is being taken broadside on the house, which radically increases the load.

The key if you're going to secure the boat with more than one line is to insure that the loss of one doesn't cause you to lose the boat. Otherwise you're better off only using one line and making it extra-heavy.

In a slip the "spiderweb" strategy works well because you can set up so that one line failing doesn't screw you. That doesn't usually work at anchor since losing one of the attachments usually causes the boat to weathercock - and that usually overloads the remaining line.

Plus, the more lines out at anchor, the more "things" there are for someone else who gets loose to get tangled up in. If that happens you usually lose your boat, because a fouled anchor line on your boat normally will either get cut off, you'll bash up against him (and eventually have your vessel compromised) or your anchor will be pulled free due to a loss of scope.