Spring lines/stern/aft lines Why do we cross them?

[MikeP]

In all the line arranging/re-arranging re irene I got to wondering...why do we cross lines?

IOW, if a boat has two cleats on the side the forward cleat is usually attached to a spring line some distance behind it on the dock; the aft cleat is attached to the dock some distance in front so that the lines cross. Is this any stronger/more secure than not crossing them? I can't figure out why there is any difference. We do the same with stern lines - cross them. Why?

I realize that making the lines longer helps with stretch and the ability for the boat to ride up/down with the tide and not require any adjustments. And depending on the dock/piers, there may not be a way to get a decent run without crossing the lines. But if a decent run is possible without crossing the lines, does crossing provide any other advantage?

 

[Pascal]

the only reason to cross lines is to make them longer so that tides will not affect the line as much...

as to spring lines, i guess there is no reason not to attach a springs from a forward midship cleat to a point forward on the dock, and the aft midship to point aft on the dock except that you will probably end up on the same dockside cleats / pilings as the bow and stern lines...

generally speaking it's geometry 101: a short line will pull on the boat is it comes down with the tide. exagerating, if you have a 4' long line from your stern cleat to a piling next to the stern, the boat will be 4' away when the line is level. drop the tide 4' and the cleat will end up agaisnt the piling.

on the other hand, if you cross, your line will be 4 + 15' = 19'.. drop the tide 4' and the angle will remain pretty close and the distance will barely change.

 

[carolinacoast]

after a long day underway in a friend's boat, we secured the lines backing into the slip. After I secured the lines to the pilings on the bow, I asked the dockhand why he did not criss cross the stern lines. He said, "It's a floating dock, sir". He was right. I gave him a tip, and got a drink. Pascal's answer is dead on correct.

 

[SeaEric]

It makes sense to cross the springs in a position so they don't interfere with boarding the boat. No sense in guests tripping over a line.

 

[rsmith]

You mean like this Mike?

 

[Nonchalant1]

Another reason is simply that the best docking sequence is frequently to put a spring on the forward mid-cleat and secure that on the dock towards the aft of the boat so you can bump the engine on that side in and out of fwd, which pulls you in alongside the dock like a pro and leaves a forward spring holding you while you get an cross stern on. Then it's just easier to add the aft spring, crossing the fwd.

The same is true when leaving the dock. If somebody puts boats close to your bow and stern, you cast off all but the fwd spring and put the outboard engine in fwd to neatly move your stern out away from the dock (watching the bow carefully) without any forward or aft motion. If the fwd spring is a loop, cast it off after your stern is out and back out like a pro.

Doug

 

[GJH]

I go bow in because that's the way out electrical and water are set up, bow or side.

That dock hand someone referenced is wrong. Every one of the high end sport fisherman, plus the new 72 foot Hatt, cross their stern lines on these floating docks, and I throw the opposite side single stern line from my boat as well. I noticed they use those stern lines to keep the boat positioned in the slip, there is seldom any pressure on their bow lines. It gives you a much better angle and some very needed stretch to mitigate jerking stress on boat and dock cleats.

On our current dock, the only reason my springs are crossed is due to the position of the cleats on the docks. When I could get enough length on other docks, I preferred not to cross them mostly to prevent chafe and not to interfere with the ladder or stairs. But I always like docking with that forward to aft spring for the very reasons Doug mentions. I like having the loop end on the dock for the springs as well.

 

[carolinacoast]

Thanks , George. your comment is insightful and correct. this is all very similar to the concept of anchor rode scope. more is better, and it gives a boat more margin for a weather change to stay comfortable in its slip. thanks.

 

[rsmith]

I have to hand it to the guys running the MY's. I delivered MikeP's boat for the PO back in the early 90's. (Ive run a couple DC's but never a MY with a aft enclosure). It was way harder to dock and line handle than a SF. Mostly due to limited visibility and access to the stern lines. I guess if your side to its the same as a SF. But it seems all the slips I get when traveling are the ones you need to back in with the forward poles sized for a 70'r and no intermeadiate pole to lay against to keep you off the boats on either side. I had to x the stern lines at several places and realised it was a PITA to get off the boat. I kinda understand y you guys like to anchor out.

 

[Angela]

I have to hand it to the guys running the MY's. I delivered MikeP's boat for the PO back in the early 90's. (Ive run a couple DC's but never a MY with a aft enclosure).

That's why I was such a wus about taking Sanctuary out when we lived at Rickenbacker where I had to back in to a slip that was only a few inches wider than the boat was (and no finger piers). From the pilothouse, I had a bulkhead separating the lower helm from the galley/salon. From the flybridge, in order to see the pilings to the slip I was backing into, I had to leave the helm, crawl over the aft railing, over the dinghy and look down. I pull bow in now, into a 22' wide slip, and love it!

 

[Pascal]

What i like with the MYs is that the lower helm is just a fee steps from the spring lines... And you re not ghat far from your bow lines either/ certainly a lot closer than on a SF

Stern lines are easy to reach too, certainly easier than a SF without stern controls. The only issue on some boats is when people have unpractical enclosures or furniture

Visibility on the 53my/58yf Ans other galley down is a non issue, it s excellent. On galley up boats like Angela it is a little harder but if you open the blinds in the saloon on the stbd side you can see down the side from the helm, the angle is just right. If you knownwhere your stbd side is, then you know you clear the port side. You really to see one side

The first time i backed sanctuary into Angela s old slip, she said "good job but do you mind putting her in the right slip?" i had backed into the wrong slip...

The easiest way to handle visibility on a MY is to put a camera at the stern and an LCD tv at the helm.

 

[hibanx]

Crossing the stern lines is usually a necessity because if you run a line from the nearside of the transom to a cleat mounted on a floating dock directly beneath it, it ends up being nearly vertical. You need the lines running in more of a horizontal plane to control the side to side movement of the boat in the slip. Also, a short line will have less stretch than a longer length, it can really put a lot of load on the cleats.