Rudder shaft play

[Nonchalant1]

When I was taking my props off for their winter tuneup, I noticed that my rudder shafts have quite a bit of play in them. If I put my hand on the bottom of the rudder and push it side to side without turning it, the shaft has about 1/16" to 1/8" of play at the junction between the shaft and collar. I obviously have no idea if they vibrate here when underway, but I expect that they would. Is this something that can be adjusted? They don't leak water at the glands inside the boat.

Thanks,

Doug Shuman

 

[JLR]

Not unusual. I had mine dropped, rebedded and repacked several years ago. This is a fairly common "problem" that should be taken care of.

 

[Trojan]

If your checking the movement at the bottom of the rudder,maybe 28 inches from the bottom of the boat. I would think that the amount of movement is not critical at this time. But if you are seeing that much movement where the shaft enters the boat. I would keep my eye on it. It sounds excess. There is no adjustment for that, just replacement. It also depends on the diameter of the shaft and how far the rudder extends down. The smaller the rudder and shaft are ,the less play it can have. Bill

 

[Nick]

I had similar play in the rudders on our 37C. The rudder posts run through a rubber cutlass bearing set in the bronze rudder hull fittings. I believe you can see the bearing if you look up along the rudder shaft when you are hauled. The rubber wears over the years and hence the play you observed. The more play in the cutlass bearing, the more wear and tear on the rudder packing and water leakage at the packing. I had the rudders removed, the bearings replaced, rebed the bronze hull rudder fittings that hold the rudders, repacked the rudder posts and replaced the leaking Hynautic steering ram. No more play and no more rudder packing leaks.

 

[Nonchalant1]

I'm wondering how to get at the top of the shafts to drop them in a 53MY? It looks like I'd have to break into or remove the wood paneling, since I can't see how I could possibly get in there to do the work.

Thanks,

Doug

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Centerline queen or twins?

 

[Nonchalant1]

It's an athwartship queen, so there's a 4' high solid afromosia wall covering the lazarette with the water tank and rudders, etc. inside. It has the usual large top hatches, a very small hatch to get a wrench on the port packing gland and an opening behind the starboard drawers to get at the sb packing gland. The problem is getting to the top of the rudder shafts. I'm 6' 2" and 200 lbs. so no way I can get in the lazarette cabinet, but maybe I can make tools long enough to reach down in there?

After dropping the rudders, do I have to remove the collars from the hull, or do I just cut the old rubber bearings out and install new ones from the bottom?

Are there set screws that hold the rubber bearings into the collars?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[first230sl]

Doug - I could be wrong, but I would guess that yours are more like mine (on the 58 YF) than they are like on the 37. On mine, there is no rubber cutlass bearing. The rudder shaft goes into the rudder port. The shaft looks like stainless to me, and the rudder port is bronze. It is metal on metal contact. The packing material sits inside the screw cap and is compressed down onto the rudder port (and inward toward the shaft) as the cap is screwed onto the top of the port.

I have done the job of removing (the ports from the hull), re-bedding and replacing the rudder ports on the 58. From the sound of it my access was better than yours, but still a real pain. But I know them really well now, and have some pictures to boot - so if you want to know what they look like as they come apart, I could probably help.

Again - that is assuming yours are like mine.

Take care - Murray

It's an athwartship queen, so there's a 4' high solid afromosia wall covering the lazarette with the water tank and rudders, etc. inside. It has the usual large top hatches, a very small hatch to get a wrench on the port packing gland and an opening behind the starboard drawers to get at the sb packing gland. The problem is getting to the top of the rudder shafts. I'm 6' 2" and 200 lbs. so no way I can get in the lazarette cabinet, but maybe I can make tools long enough to reach down in there?

After dropping the rudders, do I have to remove the collars from the hull, or do I just cut the old rubber bearings out and install new ones from the bottom?

Are there set screws that hold the rubber bearings into the collars?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Nonchalant1]

Murray,

Yes, I'd be really interested in whatever pictures you have. Did you basically take out the old ports from the bottom and rebed new ones, and they fit the old shafts? Maybe you can upload the pictures to shutterfly or some such website?

Thanks much,

Doug

 

[DickB]

Since I just hauled, what do I look for re shaft/bearing wear? I don't have water in my aft bilge. Is this an issue of just waiting for some water to begin appearing, or is there some kind of check that can be performed to determine if something needs replacement?

Dick

 

[first230sl]

Hey Doug. No problem. I doucmented it pretty well (and got lots of good advice from the group) in this forum. For my job I did not need to install new ports, only remove and replace the existing ones. But it would be exactly the same job if I was putting in new ports. If you click to the following link:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1630&highlight=rudder+port

... you can read all about it.

It will probably be a good read for you before attempting the job.

Feel free to ask me any questions at all.

Best regards - Murray

Murray,

Yes, I'd be really interested in whatever pictures you have. Did you basically take out the old ports from the bottom and rebed new ones, and they fit the old shafts? Maybe you can upload the pictures to shutterfly or some such website?

Thanks much,

Doug

 

[Nonchalant1]

Murray,

Thanks much! Mine looks about the same, but how did you get in there to work on it? Maybe different bed setup? I'll check it out in detail vs. yours when I get back to the boat in 10 days or so. Mine is not leaking at all, so I think the problem is the port has a worn hole.

Doug

Dick,

I just grabbed the bottom of the rudders and pushed hard left and right. I found that the shaft at the top of the rudder can move about 1/8" or so in the collar mounted in the hull. It's obviously loose, and kind of goes "clunk" when I push it from one side to the other.

Doug

 

[first230sl]

Hey Doug. The reason I can get at it is because on the 58YF, the ports are in the lazarette. So the access is still cramped, but I suspect much better than you have in the 53. I am sorry - I have no experience with the 53 so can't tell you about access. My guess is that the hardware will be the same though.

Best regards - Murray

Murray,

Thanks much! Mine looks about the same, but how did you get in there to work on it? Maybe different bed setup? I'll check it out in detail vs. yours when I get back to the boat in 10 days or so. Mine is not leaking at all, so I think the problem is the port has a worn hole.

Doug
Doug