overhaul costs Detroit Diesel 12v71

[Finally]

Hi,

Did somebody know, how much a overhaul for a Detroit Diesel 12V71 Turbo costs?

I am in Spain. A local company calculate with 250 hours, I think it's too much.

I will be very happy, to hear something from other members.

Thanks

Erman

 

[ageless]

There are a lot of factors that go into determining costs. For example, a major in my vessel can be done without pulling the motors, assuming the block doesn't need any work, because I have plenty of room. A good rule of thumb is $3000 per hole x 12 = $36,000

 

[rustybucket]

Don't the 71's have to be pulled and sent to machine shop to be re-sleeved? Didn't think the dry sleeves could be done in-place?

Are you going to pull the engines yourself and replace them?

If you could do the R&R yourself and just deliver the engine(s) to the shop you may save a few bucks.

If you farm out the R&R it's going to be more. Also, count on lots of other things needing to be replaced/fixed while you have the engines out.

 

[Boatsb]

Do the math. 2 men at 40 hours a week is 80 hours a week.
3 weeks is 240 hours.


Its not a small job

And they don't need to take them out to fit liners.

 

[oceanjake]

That is where I have issue. 2 men cannot both be fully utilized during the entire overhaul process. If you want to pay a guy to supervise another guy it’s your prerogative. The narine industry expects to capitalize on unsavvy wealthy owners. Times that two people are useful: Pulling the heads. Removing cooler housings (not necessary), sending someone to pick up lunch. Times a second person is not needed: Installing injectors, setting the rack, fitting the sleeves, cleaning the coolers, etc. So, if you bring in second hands for the two half days you end up with 128 hours instead of 240. Yes there will be hiccups, wrong parts ordered, bolts that need to be extracted. I once watched a guy on the next dock change out just the liners in his 16v92 starboard engine in one long day, with a helper to remove the heads.I’d suggest that market price for a rebuild is about 45k. If you shop around and ask the right questions you can probably get it done for 25k. If you take the boat to Mexico for the rebuild, 15k on the high side. These are simple engines.

 

[Boatsb]

Its more efficient to have 2 good guys on the engine than 1. Passing things, Reaching for tools and parts without having to work your way out of the corner to go get something.

Im sure you have done a few yourself to be commenting because I know from tearing down motors its a lot more than you think.

It took a day to pull the blower off my 8V53 because it was in the boat and had a few less than cooperative bolts. It also requires the governor and other parts be removed to get to it. Then the time to tear it all down and asses the condition of the blower, Order the new parts, gaskets and materials then to replace it was a day and a half.

71 series need lines fitted correctly or they will fail. The time to fit 24 liners may vary from a few hours to a few days. Then theres testing, adjusting and maybe fixing something else.

Id not want to rush the job either. Had a customer get his 671TIBs rebuilt "cost effectively".

1 engine failed ( 2 kits and a head ) in 150 hours. repaired
2nd failed 1 kit and the head 3 months later. repaired
Another failure 50 hours later torn down and being repaired when I asked them to get the parts list.

Wrong parts all around, reliabilt injectors. 671n heads, wrong rings and more.

2 more rebuilds on 1 ( out of the boat to line bore the cam) and 1 on the other and the picture i posted with the connectors was what he got. He also needed a heat exchanger replaced, gaskets for the inspection ports and some water leaks to be fixed. It all adds up.

 

[MVCaprice]

Subscribing.

18k per side seems ballpark. The big question I would have is does that include turbo rebuilds as well as blower rebuilds? I would have some very specific criteria around what gets done. Also, what about the transmission?

In Seattle we paid around 10k for a 6v71 NA in frame about 10 years ago.

 

[Boatsb]

tIM could you please give us some info on your rebuilds of the 8v92's.

Just as a comparison. I don't see it $18k for a 1271ti as reasonable.

 

[MVCaprice]

tIM could you please give us some info on your rebuilds of the 8v92's.

Just as a comparison. I don't see it $18k for a 1271ti as reasonable.

One thing that I suspect is a factor is what area the boat is in. In Seattle I would expect in Lake Union you might pay more than in Port Townsend, Bellingham or Anacortes. Keep in mind though that the going rate in Seattle proper is around 100$/hr so labor costs are fairly high. FWIW, Our 671 rebuild was in Seattle and was not competitively bid at all.

 

[Boatsb]

Define a full rebuild.

Coolers, pumps, injectors, turbos, blowers, governors, oil pumps, all bearings ( crank, main, cam...)hoses, clamps wires...

Just 2 turbos, 2 blowers and a set of injectors can cost $10k.

 

[MVCaprice]

Define a full rebuild.

Coolers, pumps, injectors, turbos, blowers, governors, oil pumps, all bearings ( crank, main, cam...)hoses, clamps wires...

Just 2 turbos, 2 blowers and a set of injectors can cost $10k.

Great point. For all said above would you expect pricewise?

Also, What is the commonly accepted "major overhaul" bar in terms of included items? Is that basically only rebuild what is needed as required? Or are things like Turbos and blowers standard as part of that process?

One other question that I would have is that a lot of those parts can be cleaned up and repaired. For example the turbos if in good shape they likely can have new seals and bearings installed if the impellers and housings are in good shape. When you say 10k is that your estimate meaning rebuild/clean/fix?

Sorry for all the amateur questions.

 

[Boatsb]

Great point. For all said above would you expect pricewise?

Also, What is the commonly accepted "major overhaul" bar in terms of included items? Is that basically only rebuild what is needed as required? Or are things like Turbos and blowers standard as part of that process?

One other question that I would have is that a lot of those parts can be cleaned up and repaired. For example the turbos if in good shape they likely can have new seals and bearings installed if the impellers and housings are in good shape. When you say 10k is that your estimate meaning rebuild/clean/fix?

Sorry for all the amateur questions.

1271 TI has 2 each turbos and blowers to be rebuilt, Coolers ( hear exchanger, fuel cooler, Transmission cooler itercoolers and after cooler and oil cooler) to clean and test. Not all have each but you get my point.

A rebuild is not just roll in bearing and kits.

 

[rustybucket]

tIM could you please give us some info on your rebuilds of the 8v92's.

Just as a comparison. I don't see it $18k for a 1271ti as reasonable.

Rebuild of our 8v92's was right at $30k/side (parts and labor NOT R&R). That was with the engines out of the boat and shipped to the rebuilder. It was a pretty thorough rebuild, I have the detailed list on the boat, but it replaced just about everything I would have expected, turbos, liners, gaskets, seals with dyno run to verify.

I cannot imagine you getting a 12v rebuilt for under $30k. Plus my ignorant self would think the dry liners would be harder/more time consuming to install over the wet liners of the 92's.

 

[Boatsb]

The 71 liners could be more work than the 92 liners for sure. Plus the 12 vs 8 means 1/2 again the work.

Just replaced alternators on a customers "rebuilds".

I found 50 amp advance auto parts alternators on a 671tib. Couldn't understand how they missed the fact they didn't work or the fact that they were the wrong units or that the connectors were falling off the wires.

They paid me and a mechanic so far $10k or more for cleaning up the "rebuilds".

 

[oceanjake]

I can see how a second set of hands would speed things along, but I've witnessed two guys on my boat charging $125/hr each while only one is working. The other is passing wrenches. SORRY, but passing wrenches is for $25/hr guys....not doubling the rate on me.

I've been fortunate to have stumbled on a great old school detroit mechanic that isn't at all shy about sharing info. When I've hired him to do work I always make sure that I'M the guy passing him wrenches. I get to ask questions. He shows me exactly what he's doing an why, and the next time I can do it myself. They are truly simple engines but you need to pay attention to all of the details and do things to spec.

I would even suggest that these are perfect engines for a DIY guy because there is no computer control to deal with.

 

[kelpy]

That is where I have issue. 2 men cannot both be fully utilized during the entire overhaul process. If you want to pay a guy to supervise another guy it’s your prerogative. The narine industry expects to capitalize on unsavvy wealthy owners. Times that two people are useful: Pulling the heads. Removing cooler housings (not necessary), sending someone to pick up lunch. Times a second person is not needed: Installing injectors, setting the rack, fitting the sleeves, cleaning the coolers, etc. So, if you bring in second hands for the two half days you end up with 128 hours instead of 240. Yes there will be hiccups, wrong parts ordered, bolts that need to be extracted. I once watched a guy on the next dock change out just the liners in his 16v92 starboard engine in one long day, with a helper to remove the heads.I’d suggest that market price for a rebuild is about 45k. If you shop around and ask the right questions you can probably get it done for 25k. If you take the boat to Mexico for the rebuild, 15k on the high side. These are simple engines.

From a complete 16V-92 engine in the morning, oil and coolant drained, fuel lines removed and capped, external coolant tubing removed, two turbos disconnected and removed, , two exhaust manifolds disconnected and removed, two blowers disconnected and removed, two aftercoolers removed, all valve lifters removed, four heads unbolted and removed, oil pan dropped, oil pump removed, 16 rod caps removed, 16 piston assemblies removed, 16 liners removed, two air boxes cleaned out, 32 liner o-ring contact areas in both blocks cleaned and polished, and finally 16 new cylinder kits installed in one day? By one guy? That would be impossible on my 16-92s and they have standup walkaround room on all four sides and three feet of clearance over the tops. Both have been rebuilt in the last three years. That would be a really long days work for one guy on a 6-92.
A 12-71 will run right around 45 - 50k

 

[oceanjake]

The one day guy did have a helper for the heavy lifting. He tore it down in the morning. Got liners in the evening, pulled an all nighter and had a running boat in the morning. I saw the liners going down in the dock cart. Obviously he didn’t roll in bearings and do a full rebuild. He replaced liners, pistons, and rings. The boat is still running on those liners just fine.

 

[bigbill]

it would be a shame to do a rebuild and NOT replace the blowers. any debris from an old blower will go directly in to the NEW cylinders

 

[Bayside Bert54]

I had a 12V71TI overhauled recently for $34,000 which is a good price and they did a great job. It's definitely good to have two men on the job because if one is behind the engine and needs a tool or part, the mechanic will spend all his time climbing in and out of the tight spaces and be exhausted from that alone. The cylinder head weighs over 200 lbs. The engine is a monster. It's much better to overhaul the engine out of the boat.

I have an itemized receipt if you would like to take a look. It lists every part ... labor was a flat rate $10k or so.

Removal and installation, getting everything squared away in the engine room will be another $5k-$10k.

There are no shortcuts. Get some good references before you choose a shop. You can get a horrible job for almost double the price if you're not careful.

 

[scottinsydney]

Could you please post the invoice editing out the mechanics name. It would be an interesting resource to keep filed away.