Ideal Windless, chain capstan slips

[stormchaser]

I still have the old OEM windless on Saraswati. Last time I tried to use it, the chain capstan would turn a bit, but under any load it would slip (it stayed still, motor and rope capstan turn fine). I had to pull up the chain & anchor by hand and using the rope capstan. Anyone got a tips before I hire someone to look at it?

 

[Pascal]

did you try tightening up the clutch?

that's usually all it takes, it's typically done with a winch handle placed in the notch at the top of the WL

 

[stormchaser]

Nope, didn't know to try that. Be kind and walk me through what to do?

 

[stormchaser]

Just went and looked at it, no place for a winch handle to go. But there is a large nut, just tighten that? it does seem to be only hand tight. Any clue what size that nut might be?

 

[Will]

That nut tightens the clutch. If you tighten the nut, the clutch is engaged. Loosen it and the clutch slips for paying out chain.
Will

 

[stormchaser]

Ah, OK, I just use "reverse" on it to pay out chain. This is my first boat with this style windless, am I doing it wrong? Any clue what size the nut us so I can get the right size socket?

 

[GJH]

Some Ideals, like mine, have two round holes just below the lip of the rope capstan. You put a round bar through them and tighten loosen that way. The nut doesn't come into play for clutch tightening in this design. I got the bar at EJ Metals in Baltimore; actually they cut me two. Ideal will sell you a fancy one, but Cliff advised me to get one from a metals distributor like EJ to save $$$. Mine are about 2 feet long. If you still have slippage the clutch plate may be worn smooth. If scuffing it up doesn't work, Ideal has them. If in further doubt just call ideal; they provide support for every windlass they have made.

 

[MikeP]

Look around the boat - you may discover the capstan wrench somewhere. It's about 2 feet long and appears to be made of brass/bronze.

Back when we bought our 53 in '04 I purchased a large socket for that purpose. Naturally, within days of buying that socket I found TWO of the original capstan wrenches that were supplied with the boat as new. One was in the port engine room and one was underneath a bunch of gear stored in the port bow storage box.

As noted, the clutch is engaged/released by the amount of torque you put on that nut. Removing that nut is the first step in pulling off the rope capstan, removing the retaining pin, pulling off the chain gypsy and getting access to the clutch itself should you want to inspect or replace it. I recommend you pull it to take a look at minimum. New clutch discs/springs are available from Ideal. They also have a replacement capstan nut that has projections on it so you can tighten/loosen it by hand. It's pretty handy but pricy.

Also, it's a good idea to leave the nut backed off a turn or two to relieve pressure on the clutch when you are not actually hauling up the anchor. If you leave the nut in the tight position, the clutch will seize to the gypsy due to moisture and it can be a bit of a "Beat it with a BAH" exercise to release it.

Also - I apologize for repeating what we all "know" but since I ignored it and had to make a repair because of it...DON"T use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor and then lift the anchor. It can do the following in order of screwed-up-ness: blow the fuse/breaker; weld one of the solenoids closed (which will then trip the breaker/fuse when you reverse the motor and also require replacement of the solenoid); burn out the motor. Luckily, I only did the first two.

 

[captainwjm]

"you may discover the capstan wrench somewhere. It's about 2 feet long and appears to be made of brass/bronze."

Mine came in 2 pieces, a socket and a bar.

 

[MikeP]

Maybe that's just the way those dang Vikings did it!

Actually, that's probably the way they came on our 53 as well. The "head" is a separate piece that is slides onto the bar. Ours both have a nut/bolt keeping the head on the bar but maybe that was added by the PO.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Just figgered it was time... ws

 

[stormchaser]

excellent! Thanks! OK, another stupid question, but like I said, this is my first boat with an all-chain rode...so...how do you "cleat off"? Or do you?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You need to take the load off of the windlass. The best way is with a rope bridle, but if you have a chain stopper, that works too. You just don't have any stretch if you don't have some rope.

Look at Yachtsmanbill's chain stopper in front of his windlass. If you don't have one of those, you need to clip or tie a length of rope to your chain that you can cleat off.

 

[stormchaser]

I've got one of those, just didn't know if that was sufficient.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I've got one of those, just didn't know if that was sufficient.

The chainstop is okay for "light anchoring", but you should really make up a bridle for overnight(or longer) anchoring. If the winds pick up or you have wave action, you'll be better off with something to cushion the pull of the chain.

Here is an example of a snubber hook that you could use for attaching your bridle:

 

[MikeP]

Yep, the bridle is the best way to go though it's a bit fiddly to deal with since after the anchor is set, you have to connect the point of the V to the chain rode BeLOW the pulpit and then each end of the "V" to the forward cleats. Then you lower the anchor so there's slack in the chain between the capstan and the bridle so that the bridle now has all the load. It would actually be a lot easier if you don't have a pulpit.

Also, if your anchor is really set well, you will need the bridle again to break it loose. I have found that my Fortress FX55 digs in so well in the Ches Bay mud that if you motor directly overhead and try to pull it up with the boat moving forward, it will actually start bending the stainless steel chute and the bow pulpit. SO...that means you have to reattach the bridle to take the load off the pulpit as you break the anchor loose. It's a PITA to attach the bridle again and then un-attach it to pull the anchor the rest of the way.

Since we almost always anchor out, Sometimes I wish we didn't have a pulpit on the boat, just a bow chute.

 

[stormchaser]

I've got a Delta plow on the all chain and a Danforth on the rope rode. I only anchor out about a half dozen times a year, and it's mostly in places with a mud bottom. Thanks for all the advice guys, once again the Hatteras community comes through!

 

[Pascal]

in all but the most severe conditions, if you use enough scope (7:1 or more) the weight of the chain is all you need to absorb the shocks and prevent the anchor from being yanked off the bottom. in severe conditions, you will use more scope anyway, swinging room permitting... i've used up to 10:1 in 30kts and never had the anchor yanked off the bottom.

using a bridle in normal conditions is mostly a waste of time and if you need to move in a hurry, like someone dragging on to you, it can slow you down.

if you have a WL with a nut, a pipe wrench can be used although obviously not ideal... but it will work and save your back if you dont' have the right tool

 

[Angela]

I'm a fan of the bridle. I can unhook it in about 2 seconds and let it hang, so I don't consider it something to slow me down when I need to move fast. What I do not like to do is pull the anchor or the boat with the 30+ year old windlass, and that includes setting the anchor. Once the bridle is in place (and I can do that underway), it only takes a second to hook it on the chain where I want it. If it buys my windlass, pulpit and decking a few more years of life, then I can take a moment of time to hook the chain. And since I pay the repair bills, I get to make the rules in that regard.

 

[Pascal]

I'm a fan of the bridle. I can unhook it in about 2 seconds and let it hang, so I don't consider it something to slow me down when I need to move fast. What I do not like to do is pull the anchor or the boat with the 30+ year old windlass, and that includes setting the anchor. Once the bridle is in place (and I can do that underway), it only takes a second to hook it on the chain where I want it. If it buys my windlass, pulpit and decking a few more years of life, then I can take a moment of time to hook the chain. And since I pay the repair bills, I get to make the rules in that regard.

Obviously that s why having WL controls at the helm is a must in my book.

That said in calm weather there isn't much effort onthe WL when pilling the boat up, certainly no worst than when your hauling 100' of chain and anchor straight up from 100' depth

When some idiot start dragging in the middle of the night and is about to get tangled up in your rode every second count and being able to move the boat sideways while dumping chain to clear his prop without delay is critical...

Been there done that...