High water false alarm sounding...70 Sport Deck

[northshoreone]

I am looking for any advice in correcting a intermittent high water alarm on my 70 sport deck. It started out just chirping on occasion. I called Sams and they gave me the phone # to a gentleman who rebuilds the monitoring systems. He advised me to jump the connections on the monitoring system to determine if it was the system or one of the floats. Good news...Bad news..it wasn't the monitoring system so it's one or more of the floats. My question is, does anyone have a better way to determine which float it is other than starting at one, cutting the wires, twisting them together and seeing if that's the one causing the alarm to go off. If not...continuing on untill I find it! Murphy's law says it will be the last one checked!.......and we all know how easy they are to get at!

Thanks for any thoughts and advise!

 

[Fanfare]

Over the years I have tried to "improve" on my bilge alarm system switches. I now have three different kinds throughout the boat. My original ones use a bell-shaped collector in the bilge connected to a rubber tube running up through the deck to a pressure diaphram in a drier location. These have a three inch rubber cap on top. You can pull the cap and jumper the two wires to sound the alarm. Detach the tube from the diaphram and blow through it down to the bilge. There should not be any restriction. Other than this, these are pretty foolproof.

I believe I have replaced all the Rule float switches. These used to work fairly well until Rule had to remove the mercury from the switches (thanks again, EPA) and go to rattely metal balls. These don't seem to last, and their wires seem to corrode off. Also the floats can get stuck on top of some bilge debris, sometimes just enough to give intermittent alarms. This may be your problem. Lift each float to its highest position which should trip the alarm. Sometimes these get detached from their base and just float around.

My newer switches are enclosed in a tube to avoid debris, and use sealed magnetic switches tripped by a floating bar magnet inside the tube. Test by grabbing the bar and lifting it up until the alarm sounds. These are expensive, but seem to last.

All of my switches are off until tripped, when energized they conduct electricity to complete the circuit. As you do the inspections you can usually see if something is causing them to be energized. If the switches all seem OK the problem is probably in your safety panel. Less likely is a bad wire shorting, but Hatteras used good wire and is usually well done. To short you need both + and - wires to chafe through, and this usually shorts and trips the breaker for that bilge pump.

I also should mention the day I had intermittent alarms for my pt engine room. The real reason was that the bow compartment alarm had failed, the generator room was trying to fill from a back-siphoned bilge pump, and we were sinking! After fixing this, the next worst thing that day was that all the labels on the bottles in my wine cellar soaked off and we could only identify the wines by opening the bottle and reading the writing on the corks. At least we could tell red from white. After this I installed a second redundant set of bilge pickups in all compartments. I also divided my bow and generator areas into two separate compartments. So far, so good.

 

[MarioG]

STOP! Before you start changing parts check all the engine key ignition switches espcially the ones on the flybridge.

read this thread for an explaination:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?20696-Systems-Monitor-3-Point

 

[northshoreone]

Over the years I have tried to "improve" on my bilge alarm system switches. I now have three different kinds throughout the boat. My original ones use a bell-shaped collector in the bilge connected to a rubber tube running up through the deck to a pressure diaphram in a drier location. These have a three inch rubber cap on top. You can pull the cap and jumper the two wires to sound the alarm. Detach the tube from the diaphram and blow through it down to the bilge. There should not be any restriction. Other than this, these are pretty foolproof.

I believe I have replaced all the Rule float switches. These used to work fairly well until Rule had to remove the mercury from the switches (thanks again, EPA) and go to rattely metal balls. These don't seem to last, and their wires seem to corrode off. Also the floats can get stuck on top of some bilge debris, sometimes just enough to give intermittent alarms. This may be your problem. Lift each float to its highest position which should trip the alarm. Sometimes these get detached from their base and just float around.

My newer switches are enclosed in a tube to avoid debris, and use sealed magnetic switches tripped by a floating bar magnet inside the tube. Test by grabbing the bar and lifting it up until the alarm sounds. These are expensive, but seem to last.

All of my switches are off until tripped, when energized they conduct electricity to complete the circuit. As you do the inspections you can usually see if something is causing them to be energized. If the switches all seem OK the problem is probably in your safety panel. Less likely is a bad wire shorting, but Hatteras used good wire and is usually well done. To short you need both + and - wires to chafe through, and this usually shorts and trips the breaker for that bilge pump.

I also should mention the day I had intermittent alarms for my pt engine room. The real reason was that the bow compartment alarm had failed, the generator room was trying to fill from a back-siphoned bilge pump, and we were sinking! After fixing this, the next worst thing that day was that all the labels on the bottles in my wine cellar soaked off and we could only identify the wines by opening the bottle and reading the writing on the corks. At least we could tell red from white. After this I installed a second redundant set of bilge pickups in all compartments. I also divided my bow and generator areas into two separate compartments. So far, so good.

Thanks, I believe my high water alarms are daisy chained all together. The circute is broken when the magnetic float rise's on the rod and interuptes the circute. When I take a stick and lift up the floats (when the alarm is not already on) they do work properly. They all seem to be clean etc. I understand that the floats do go bad...but if its a bad float I would think that the alarm would be on all the time not intermittently.

 

[Lar]

I had a similar problem during a yard visit a few months back. The next week I attended Roger Wetherinton's Vintage Hatteras Owners course and discussed the issue with him. He recommended checking the input DC voltage. The voltage was low and once that was remedied the chirping/false alarms were gone.

Thanks again Roger!

 

[northshoreone]

I will check the voltage. I read something about that in another thread here. I placed all new batteries in the boat last year but you never know. Like I said, the chirping, that went away for about three months, is now a screeming alarm which is now one for a few days and then off for a time, then back again! I plan on getting back to the boat in a couple of weeks to hunt down the issue.
Thanks for the advise...

 

[captddis]

I am looking for any advice in correcting a intermittent high water alarm on my 70 sport deck. It started out just chirping on occasion. I called Sams and they gave me the phone # to a gentleman who rebuilds the monitoring systems. He advised me to jump the connections on the monitoring system to determine if it was the system or one of the floats. Good news...Bad news..it wasn't the monitoring system so it's one or more of the floats. My question is, does anyone have a better way to determine which float it is other than starting at one, cutting the wires, twisting them together and seeing if that's the one causing the alarm to go off. If not...continuing on untill I find it! Murphy's law says it will be the last one checked!.......and we all know how easy they are to get at!

Thanks for any thoughts and advise!

There really is no other way to do it. May want to check connections at the floats first, a corroded connection will do that too.

 

[Boatnut]

Thanks, I believe my high water alarms are daisy chained all together. The circute is broken when the magnetic float rise's on the rod and interuptes the circute. When I take a stick and lift up the floats (when the alarm is not already on) they do work properly. They all seem to be clean etc. I understand that the floats do go bad...but if its a bad float I would think that the alarm would be on all the time not intermittently.

When you say your switches are daisy chained together, do you mean they are connected in series, like some Christmas tree lights, where is one goes out they all go out. Or are they parallel where only one lamp will go out?

Intermittents are allways a son of a gun to fix. Here is a trick we use. Get an led, at your local radio sheck rated at the same voltage as your bilge circuit. You can get one led or several one for each switch. Wire the led across the switch keeping polarity in mind. In a daisy chained system all switches have to be closed if there is no problem. In this case the led connected across the switch will light when the alarm goes off. In a parallel circuit, the lamp will be on if all is well, and go off if there is a problem. In a parallel circuit you can put the LED across the connections at the monitor, that will tell you which circuit is causing the problem, you will then have to find out if it's a switch or a connection.

I have allways installed my own circuit using 2 switchs for every pump, there is allways a point with every switch where the pump will short cycle, and turn on and off radidly. Many people have laughed at my approach, but my pumps almost never fail. it has been many years since a pump or switch have failed. The starting inrush current is bad for any motor, the more they cycle the faster they die.


















es my last pump

 

[northshoreone]

I may have used incorrect termanology in my daisy chain referance to how they are wired. The alarm sounds by the magnetic float rising thus breaking the circut. It is a single wire going from one float to another in a chain...then back to the monitor. The rising of the magnetic float breaks the circut or if you broke the wire the alarm will go off. They are also not connected to any pumps in the blidge those are all seperate with their own floats. They are there to tell you if water is coming in at a faster rate than the bildge pumps can remove...thus your sinking!!!! Time to wake up and do something about it! Only thankfully in my case its not sinking just annoying!!

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Intermittent alarm may be a cracked solder line on the main board. Does it stop if you tap on the box that houses that board? Low voltage can also cause that board to do funny things. Jump that circuit at the board first to see if it still occurs.

I had several intermittent false alarms, so I sent my board in to Flight Systems and they refurbished it a few years ago.

 

[Scottbee]

Just to help you with your terminology...

Your switches are "daisy chained" in series with N/C (normally closed) contacts.

In old-school terms this is considered to be the "failsafe" method, because if any of the circuitry gets cut the alarm will sound. But it also makes debugging an intermittent alarm a royal pain.

 

[Boatnut]

As captddis stated jumping out switches is the only way to find the problem. Being you have a series circuit and connection in the circuit is subject to failure, you need to check them all one at a time. There are no magic shotcuts to this problem, depending on how often the failure occurs will determine how long it takes to fix it.

 

[northshoreone]

I did jump the connection at the monitoring box and the chirping did go away indicating that the problem was not the monitoring system but a bad float or wire in the five float circut, as I understand it. I assume, without checking the voltage , that the voltage at the board would be ok as it did stop when I jumped the board.....eliminating the float circut. I beleive that this also indicates that the board itself is working properly....thus we are back to finding the weak link in the float\wire run. ...........

 

[utspak]

Who is the gentleman that Sam Marine recommended, name and number. I am having the same issues...I would like to get the board rebuilt.

Thanks
Stuart

 

[northshoreone]

Stuart,

Les Henderson, Henderson Marine Electronics..954-663-5732

He can help you make sure that is what is needed over the phone, if you can jump some wire's etc.
Good Luck with it!

 

[clubdowd1983]

I also have a chirping high water alarm.Had some problems with system from time to time.I had a engine strainer crack a few months back while running.No alarm.Next day saw boat listing to port.Found cracked strainer,changed and ran fine back home.No alarm,bildge pumps pumped fine.Took a few weeks for water to work its way to bildges.All dry.Now they alarm goes of from time to time.I had a bright idea so i pressed the test button in pilothouse.Worked great.Pressed silence.Worked great.Half the lights are still on.Any thoughts? Thanks Chris

 

[northshoreone]

FYI what I ended up finding as the problem with mine is a wire that was somehow, about four feet from the aft float the wire had been nicked and salt had done it in. It had just enough connection left that it would only sound from time to time. Once I replaced the bad wire...all is good!! Thank heavens it was in a place that was not difficult to access!

 

[tonytrakovich]

I am having the same chirping problem. I have a 1989 65 MY that has been stretched to 74 with the addition of a cockpit. I have found 4 bilge alarms. One in the bow, pt. and sbd. midship, and one in the newer cockpit. Are there more bilge alarms? I would think there should be one more OEM alarm in the aft bilge of the original 65MY?

 

[tonytrakovich]

Here is an update for anyone with this problem. I odd find 5 bilge alarms on my boat. I talked to an old Hatteras employee that does tech work on his own now. He told me an easy way to troubleshoot which float switch may be bad. On my 1989 65MY there is the ships DC service panel on the bulkhead behind the starboard engine. Inside is terminal block TBSA. Wire numbers 2011 thru 2020 are for the float switches. You can simply clip on a jumper between 2011-2012 and see if the bilge alarm light goes off. Then 2012-2013 and so on. Once you find the one that makes the alarm light go off you can go right to that float switch. I found one bad float switch and one with a corroded connection on the wires. The corroded connection was the one giving me intermittent alarms. Hope this helps.