Anchor chain

[Colwyn D]

Can I ask for opinions on anchor chain size. The Ideal windlass fitted to my boat, 42' convertible, by Hatteras has a 1/4" wildcat on it, I can only assume Hatteras considered 1/4" size chain sufficient. I was going to fit a larger wildcat and chain but Ideal want $1000 for a new 3/8" wildcat.
Any thoughts?

 

[Boatsb]

I think the 1/4 is around 1500 lbs working load and the 3/8 about twice that. What do you feel you need?

 

[Colwyn D]

Well, ask me a question about diving, apparently I'm a professional at that! Boats blowing around in the wind, I haven't a clue.
I've been on internet trawler forums and anchor manufacturer sites and they seem to recommend around 3/8" for heavy 40' size boats. I believe the ABYC guidelines for a 40' boat give horizontal load of 2400lbs for a storm. 1/4" high test chain is 2600lbs WLL. Just ok but then Mantus anchor site and others then then go on to recommend 5/16" minimum and 3/8" for heavier boats....
Just need more opinions until someone agrees 1/4" is ok!

 

[PeterK]

This thread made me pull out Hintz. According to him, proof coil would be 1250 working; BBB would be 1325 and high test 2600. Some wildcats require BBB due to the smaller link size.

 

[PeterK]

Went a few chapters further and he recommends a CGR or Delta of 35# and 3/8 proof coil for you size, and IMHO your higher weight to length. I have a Fortress and went to a larger FX 85, 3/4 strand and 25' of 1/2 chain for our 54 EDMY (almost 80,000 lb displacement).

 

[Andy B]

Last year I had the same decision in the end I decided to keep the 1/4" chain as I didn't want to buy a new chain gypsy I believe I used HT g-4 chain, on a 66lb claw

 

[bobk]

I always thought Hatteras sized the gypsy for lunch stops. I changed from 1/4" BBB to 200' 3/8" HT as soon as I bought the 48MY (44000 pounds per brochure, 54000 cruising weight per scales). The old gypsy sold very quickly.

Bobk

 

[Boatsb]

Still the question of what you think you'll need is open. On a convertible your less likely to anchor through lots of storms. If your living on the hook alot thats different.

 

[Colwyn D]

I think I need something a bit bigger. I do tend to anchor out even when fishing, It's often quicker to get going in the morning and we cruise a fair bit in the Bahamas and again anchor most of the time. With less weather info over there It's easier to get caught out.
Trouble is, the easy answer without knowledge is to go bigger but surely Hatteras based their sizing on something. The Coast Guard guidelines I think are WLL of 1/8 the displacement giving around 3750lbs. Just can't seem to find anything that says the 1/4" is ok.

 

[MikeP]

Our 1980 53MY came with 1/4" chain on an Ideal windlass. I would never argue against the concept that bigger chain is better but we have never had any issue at all with that chain size and we have been anchored in some fairly stiff winds - on one occasion, over 45 mph for an entire night. I admit I stayed up the whole time while the boat yawed, jerked, and otherwise convinced me that the anchor and/or chain would surely not hold. The GPS was indicating boat speeds of over a knot as we yawed back/forth in fairly wide sweeps. But despite a very uncomfortable night, the anchor/chain held with no problem at all. Other boats in the same area lost anchors and chains that night so I'd agree that Hatteras did have some idea what they were doing as far as chain size for regular anchoring-out use.

OTOH, if I was starting from scratch, installing a new chain/gypsy, I'd probably use 3/8" just because…well because it seems that's what everybody claims is necessary! But based on its demonstrated performance over the 10 years I have owned the boat, I wouldn't change the 1/4 to 3/8 because I have had no indication that it is needed.

 

[bostonhatteras]

Here is a formula I looked up. Wind Drag as a function of wind speed is already calculated here but if you want that formula pm me and I'll write it out. It's kind of a long algebraic formula.
Wind speed. Drag
10. .33
20. 1.30
30. 3.00
40. 5.40
50. 8.40
60. 12.00
70. 15.20
80. 20.10

Take you drag figure that you want to use and multiply it by literal cross section of your boat that the wind will see. For your boat I figured 232 ft sq. multiplying 5.4 for 40 knot winds and 232 ft sq gives a load of 1253 pounds. The book states that wave and current action aren't nearly as important but adding 10% for each will be adequate. Multiplying the 1253 pounds by 1.20 gives approximately 1500 pounds. 1500 pounds of pull on the ground tackle would be easily taken up by 1/4" hi test chain, or otherwise known as G4,with a working load of 2600 lb and and a proof test of 4300 lb. proof coil chain, or G3, has a working load of 1250 lb and proof test of 2500 lbs. All high test chain should be stamped G4 on each link. Proof coil maybe will be maybe won't. I would say changing the chain would be a better plan than changing the wild cat. If you still don't like your safety margin, move up to transport chain or G7 which has 3150 and 6700 ratings

 

[Canuck Dennis]

The secret of course in all anchoring situations is to have enough scope out, this takes load of the gear and allows for surge protection, secondly, stay away from rocks and other boats ..lol...

 

[sandspur1966]

Here is a formula I looked up. Wind Drag as a function of wind speed is already calculated here but if you want that formula pm me and I'll write it out. It's kind of a long algebraic formula.
Wind speed. Drag
10. .33
20. 1.30
30. 3.00
40. 5.40
50. 8.40
60. 12.00
70. 15.20
80. 20.10

Take you drag figure that you want to use and multiply it by literal cross section of your boat that the wind will see. For your boat I figured 232 ft sq. multiplying 5.4 for 40 knot winds and 232 ft sq gives a load of 1253 pounds. The book states that wave and current action aren't nearly as important but adding 10% for each will be adequate. Multiplying the 1253 pounds by 1.20 gives approximately 1500 pounds. 1500 pounds of pull on the ground tackle would be easily taken up by 1/4" hi test chain, or otherwise known as G4,with a working load of 2600 lb and and a proof test of 4300 lb. proof coil chain, or G3, has a working load of 1250 lb and proof test of 2500 lbs. All high test chain should be stamped G4 on each link. Proof coil maybe will be maybe won't. I would say changing the chain would be a better plan than changing the wild cat. If you still don't like your safety margin, move up to transport chain or G7 which has 3150 and 6700 ratings

Ya gotta love the comprehensive, data driven answers on this site... bravo!

 

[bobk]

I would say changing the chain would be a better plan than changing the wild cat. If you still don't like your safety margin, move up to transport chain or G7 which has 3150 and 6700 ratings

Doesn't this still will require a new gypsy? If so, why not go for the heavier chain?
Bobk

 

[magnawake]

Our 1980 53MY came with 1/4" chain on an Ideal windlass. I would never argue against the concept that bigger chain is better but we have never had any issue at all with that chain size and we have been anchored in some fairly stiff winds - on one occasion, over 45 mph for an entire night. I admit I stayed up the whole time while the boat yawed, jerked, and otherwise convinced me that the anchor and/or chain would surely not hold. The GPS was indicating boat speeds of over a knot as we yawed back/forth in fairly wide sweeps. But despite a very uncomfortable night, the anchor/chain held with no problem at all. Other boats in the same area lost anchors and chains that night so I'd agree that Hatteras did have some idea what they were doing as far as chain size for regular anchoring-out use.

OTOH, if I was starting from scratch, installing a new chain/gypsy, I'd probably use 3/8" just because…well because it seems that's what everybody claims is necessary! But based on its demonstrated performance over the 10 years I have owned the boat, I wouldn't change the 1/4 to 3/8 because I have had no indication that it is needed.

My initial survey noted "anchor chain too small". WHAT ? It's original equipment, so I started looking for 3/8's. Then the bad news of changing out the gypsy/wildcat. I didnt have the extra moola. I kept the 1/4" chain and figured I would put out lots of scope. Since then I have never dragged and set the anchor very slowly, also a deep set Fortress takes a while to retrieve (Delta 55 is my primary). Sorry, that was off the subject. We have been in a few 40-50 mph gust storms and have had good results not dragging so there again cant justify changing everything. However, I think 3/8's would be better. Waking up or starting engines during a storm would be a safe thing to do. I also saw a 53' MY recently and noticed the 1/4" chain and ask him if he is comfortable with that size. He said heck yeah and told me about how strong it was. I think the idea of 3/8" chain isnt the strength, but the weight of the chain that would keep the anchor stuck in the mud/sand. I do now this, the times we've been in a storm anchored out seeing the 1/4" chain coming out of the water made me nervous. So far so good....fingers crossed

 

[krush]

Did ya'll ever think that instead of the chain breaking, it may just rip the windlass off the boat if not using a bridle?

 

[Boatsb]

If its a match to the anchor and the anchor is sufficient for the vessel bow can it be too small?


sounds like a bunch of kids saying mines bigger.

 

[34Hatt]

If its a match to the anchor and the anchor is sufficient for the vessel bow can it be too small?


sounds like a bunch of kids saying mines bigger.

In this case also Bigger is Better

 

[MikeP]

By coincidence with this thread, last night we were anchored on the Chester River in 19 feet of water with the scope at 4:1 at best and two T-storm cells swept through with wind gusts in excess of 55MPH per the marine and shore weather reports. The FX55 and 1/4" chain held with no problems at all. Again, the boat was making a good bit of speed with all the yawing and at one point I started the engines in preparation for the anchor or chain to let go but no action was necessary.

I was going to let out more scope but the lightning was popping all around and I have to go out on the fore-deck to let out more anchor. Even if had a windlass control inside, it wouldn't have helped since I always put out a bridle so I would have had to be out front to unhook that anyway.

But again, speaks well for the Fortress FX55 anchor and Hatteras oem 1/4" chain!