52' vs 55' Hatteras Sportfish

[Seafarer]

I am still looking for the right vessel for charter sportfishing.
I am now focusing on the 52' and 55' sportfish.
Sea keeping abilities for both boats, as well as fuel burn.
8v92TA versus 12v92TA.
Anyone have any fuel burn rates at cruise and trolling speeds.
Also any insight on how each of these vessels ride and handle in a 3-5' sea, or more, and while drift fishing.
Thanks.

 

[saltshaker]

I am still looking for the right vessel for charter sportfishing.
I am now focusing on the 52' and 55' sportfish.
Sea keeping abilities for both boats, as well as fuel burn.
8v92TA versus 12v92TA.
Anyone have any fuel burn rates at cruise and trolling speeds.
Also any insight on how each of these vessels ride and handle in a 3-5' sea, or more, and while drift fishing.
Thanks.

Both are excellent boats and very capable for offshore use. The 55 is very similar to the 55 but much bigger. I doubt there will be much of a difference in fuel burn while trolling but the 55 will be thriftier at cruise depending on which engines you are comparing. Almost all 55C have 12V71s rated from 650Hp-870Hp. There are a couple with 12V92 and some have been repowered

 

[Seafarer]

Thanks for the info. Do you think that the 12v92 would be a better engine then the 12v71 in the 55C, just because it wouldn't have to work as hard as the 71 series? Or doesn't it really matter that much.
What do you think on cruise speed fuel burn about 50 GPH ? On the 55' vs maybe 45 GPH on the 52'C at cruise.
What about these trolling speeds of 8 kts at 800 rpm and 8 gph ? and 12 kts at 1200 rpm at 12 gph ? Fuel burn ?
Does that sound about right, or on the low side of fuel burn?
Also what about the higher HP rating on some of the vessels with the 12v92 versus 12v71. These are bigger engines then the 8v92, so does the higher HP relate to less hours before having to rebuild like on some of the smaller engines?
Whichever vessel I finally buy, it will probably be logging approx. 1000 to 1400 operating hrs per year.
Thanks.

 

[rsmith]

Where and what type of chartering do you intend on doing? Neither of these boats can even come close to covering bare costs in charter service You can maybe can grind out a living if you get down into the mid 40'range.

 

[saltshaker]

Fuel burn is too low. The 8gph @ 8kts sounds about right but the rest is too low. The cruise burn may be about right for low HP 8V92 or 12V71 at slower cruise but not for the higher HP engines that are in most of the 52 and 55. There are only 2 55C I know of with 12V92TAs. Those are rated at 1080HP. I have those engines in my boat. At a slow cruise of 1700RPM I burn about 55gph. 1950RPMS it's around 80GPH. I don't run faster than that enough to give you any 1st hand numbers but the Detroit fuel curves show around 100gph at 2100 and around 125gph WOT. 1000-1400Hrs per year will mean majors every 3-5 years depending how they are run and maintained.

 

[jim rosenthal]

How large a boat can you run as an uninspected vessel (six-pack service) before you can't make enough money on charters to keep it going? With diesel at ~$4/gallon, it would seem to me that you want a smaller boat, not a larger one. I don't know what fishing charter fees are, but they would have to be rather high to support a boat that big, wouldn't they?

 

[capttonyf]

Are you looking to do this and make a living, as your only income? If so I'd go with a more efficient boat if your fishing anywhere north of Palm Beach FL. Maybe a 45C or 46C, both will serve you well and burn 1/3 less fuel than a 55. Your competition will kill you on fuel costs. If you going to fish off South FL. where you can troll out and back the few miles you need to go, either the 52C or 55C would work. But if your running offshore, fuel will kill you. If it's just for fun who cares, get what ever you want.

When you see these multi million dollar 60 to 70ft boats for charter they're not doing it to pay for the boat or to make a living. They do it mostly to keep the name of the boat out there and to keep the crew busy. To offset the cost of keeping that professional crew fishing daily and sharp so when the tourny money is on the line, or the owner and his guests are on board they've got the drill down.

If I was to run a charter boat, and try to make a living there are a few boats I would consider, but at the top of my list would be a 1988 to 1991 Hatteras 45C Re-Powered with Cummins QSM11's. Even if you find a nice DD 6V92 boat they're still 20 to 23 Knot Cruise, 25 to 27 WOT.

My reasoning is this.

1. Largest Cockpit in the 40 to 50 ft Range
2. Can handle Crew and 6 Charter Guest in complete comfort.
3. Large enough to be safe a 100 miles off in the Canyons, Small enough for just about any Marina.
4. Solid, Safe, Comfotable ride in any Condition at 20 knots while able to run 30+knots if needed.
5. Nice efficient Cruise of 27 knots Burning 35 to 40 GPH. "with Cummins" 21 to 23 with Detroits
6. 2 Staterooms 2 Heads so you can keep one Locked and all to yourself.
7. Big Bridge for a 45 with room for everyone.
8. You can Purchase one Starting from $75K or a Really Nice Clean One for $150K to $175

If you were to Charter fish for a living I would personally go this route. Again that's without having a little more details about where and when you would do this.

Miami to Palm beach a 52 or 55 would be ok, "Great Boats just Big". North of that, Fuel will kill you and South of that, "The Keys" Some marina's, "Holiday Isle, Bud-N-Mary's" etc you have to be careful with the Tide. My 45 Draws 4'6" and at Low tide and we drag the sand coming into Holiday Ise in Islamorada. A 50ft+ Hatteras would have to wait it out. A 50 is 5'4" but the 52 and 55 are right at 5' even or so they say.

Other Boats I'd Consider: Hatteras 53C, and Hatteras HP 46C. Henriques 44. $Viking 47$, Maybe a Post 46, a pounder in a head sea and can be scary down sea but built well, efficient and stable while trolling. I'd stay away from older Custom Carolina Boats because you never know what your going to get.

Where do you plan to charter? That would be a big help.

Tony

 

[Boatsb]

How large a boat can you run as an uninspected vessel (six-pack service) before you can't make enough money on charters to keep it going? With diesel at ~$4/gallon, it would seem to me that you want a smaller boat, not a larger one. I don't know what fishing charter fees are, but they would have to be rather high to support a boat that big, wouldn't they?

Id say about 36 foot.

Maybe a single engine open kind of Carolina or down east style.

If you can run out and back on less than 100 gals fuel you have a chance of breaking even.

 

[Seafarer]

Now that was some great information that I needed to hear. I really appreciate everyone's comments on my questions.
This is not my only means of making a living, at this time.
The vessel will probably run out of Palm Beach, that is my first choice of ports.
The main reason in having a larger vessel is having very good sea keeping abilities, along with plenty of room for six fisherman (or women.) the customers will have a stable and safe fishing platform, when the weather picks up.
The fuel burn has always been a major concern because of the high cost of fuel these days.
Operating the vessel out of the Palm Beach area, was a determining factor for looking at purchasing the larger size vessel instead of the 45-46C Hatteras. Because you can be fishing within 10-15 mins of departing the dock,and we wouldn't have to run the vessel very hard, in turn saving lots of fuel, in relation to having to run 20 plus miles North or South to the fishing grounds.
The other reason is the size of the engine rooms, the larger vessels have larger eng rooms.
Which makes it easier to get around down there and service all the equipment.
I am going to take another look at the vessels you have suggested though.
Thanks again for all your time and input. Let me hear your thoughts on my reply.

 

[rsmith]

No offence but you don't sound like you have a lot of experience with these size boats and charter fishing. Fishing Palm Beach is no 10-15 minute run. Most of the sailfish fleet fishes the ball off Jupiter, not a long run but more like 45 minutes from the inlet. But during the winter many times the Palm Beach fleet can end up as far north as Sebastion. Until you get north of Stuart you need to be live baiting with kites. If you have a tower boat like mine this can really suck. You are putting the engines in and out of gear all day and can't leave the wheel for a second. You need a top knotch mate that can handle all the gear keep the charter happy and get the fish in the boat.

 

[Seafarer]

No offense taken,
That's why I have lots of questions to be answered, about fishing out of the different ports along the east coast of fla.I am trying to get all the facts I need to make some educated decisions.
You folks have been a big help with that.
Thanks again.

 

[capttonyf]

If I was to set up a Charter Operation in South FL. I'd do it in the Keys. People travel there specifically to go fishing and weather doesn't really matter. If it's nice you can fish offshore and if it's blowing you can fish the reef and still have a productive day. Very seldom would you have to cancel a charter due to weather. Plus fishing is very consistent year round, so it's easier to keep you charter guests happy than say Ft. Lauderdale where fishing can be very spotty at times.

We keep our boat behind our condo in Fort Lauderdale and we do fish off Ft. Lauderdale for fun if time is limited BUT, If we're Planning a trip specifically to go fishing we usually go to the Keys and occasionally to the Bahamas'. I prefer the Keys though because If guests decide to join us later or leave early they can rent a car. Plus if we decide to leave the boat there it's easier as well.

Tony

 

[rsmith]

I got my 6pack at 18 and started running charters with our 34 Hatt. I found out early on that a successful charter opp relies on REPEAT customers that you have qualified. If you just hang out a shingle and take whoever comes down the dock you will get drunks,chummers and people who feel they should be able to destroy your boat and equiptment for the price of a charter. And if you don't catch fish your a POS and they should get a refund. Lock the staterooms if you don't want to find barf in your bunk. Expect the walls of your head to be washed down with urine and explosive diarrhea on a daily basis. I would recomend having the head the guests use be able to be hosed down daily. Other than that it's a lovely bussiness that if your lucky you can make as much as the kid working at Mickey D's

 

[Tim Powell]

It would take a act in congress to make me charter my 52c. Charter belive its there boat they do not puk overboard try the new carpet. Most of them can not hit the p hole. Guess who cleanes it up.T hrow tld's on the deck i could not stand it.
You need to look at the boat CHECKMATE IT IS A 46 HAT WITH VOLVOS IN IT WILL RUN ABOUT 26 27 knots cruse fuel burn not bad eather . The engines have about 2000 hours they were new about 3 years ago. If i did not want it i would not make him a offer. Been for sail about 2 years or so. Forget the 52 55 crap you will not feed your family or maybee yourself. To fish with the charter boats her in NC they leave at about 6 or so and return at about 5 thats about 10 hours at best thats about 200 gallons a day 800$ a day just fuel go figure. Some days it may bee 400 gal depending on what kind of fish you chasing that means 1600$ in in the hold already.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...-2686527/Stuart/FL/United-States#.U_5PdoKk0Qc

 

[Seafarer]

All good info, I have looked at the Checkmate on line it looks like a pretty good boat. I am going down to Stuart at the end of Sept, to look at a few boats. Maybe I will put that on my list as well. You think that would be the better choice for a charter boat? Better fuel burn compared to the 52 - 55' . Is there plenty of room for 4-6 fishermen in the cockpit area, Compared to 52' ? What about the cockpit room with a fighting chair back there?How many hrs before those Volvos need to be overhauled, and how much per engine does that run? The Checkmate is a 1979 isn't that getting a little old now ?
The engine rooms on the 46' are pretty tight when you have to crawl around down there.

 

[saltshaker]

All good info, I have looked at the Checkmate on line it looks like a pretty good boat. I am going down to Stuart at the end of Sept, to look at a few boats. Maybe I will put that on my list as well. You think that would be the better choice for a charter boat? Better fuel burn compared to the 52 - 55' . Is there plenty of room for 4-6 fishermen in the cockpit area, Compared to 52' ? What about the cockpit room with a fighting chair back there?How many hrs before those Volvos need to be overhauled, and how much per engine does that run? The Checkmate is a 1979 isn't that getting a little old now ?
The engine rooms on the 46' are pretty tight when you have to crawl around down there.

No doubt the 52C and 55C are much bigger than the 46C but the 46C is a comfortable boat. The ER is not bad and should be very roomy with the smaller engines. That being said, a repowered 52C would make an excellent boat if done right and priced reasonably.

 

[capttonyf]

All good info, I have looked at the Checkmate on line it looks like a pretty good boat. I am going down to Stuart at the end of Sept, to look at a few boats. Maybe I will put that on my list as well. You think that would be the better choice for a charter boat? Better fuel burn compared to the 52 - 55' . Is there plenty of room for 4-6 fishermen in the cockpit area, Compared to 52' ? What about the cockpit room with a fighting chair back there?How many hrs before those Volvos need to be overhauled, and how much per engine does that run? The Checkmate is a 1979 isn't that getting a little old now ?
The engine rooms on the 46' are pretty tight when you have to crawl around down there.

Like I mentioned before if you want a smaller more efficient boat than a 52 or 55 take a look at the 1988 to 1991 45C.

Like Jack and many others mentioned the 46 is great also but about 10 to 15 years older. The 45 will give you nearly identicle performance. Some say 46 may ride a touch better but with a repower the 45 is Faster with less keel. I've ran many miles on both and ride is very much the same BUT, if Cockpit size is a concern the 45 has a Longer Cockpit with MUCH more room between the Back of the Chair and the Tackle Center. This is the main reason I bought the 45, I would have been happy with either depending on the deals out there at the time but Leaned toward the 45 because I prefered the larger Cockpit.

Tony

 

[capttonyf]

Like I mentioned before if you want a smaller more efficient boat than a 52 or 55 take a look at the 1988 to 1991 45C.

Like Jack and many others mentioned the 46 is great also but about 10 to 15 years older. The 45 will give you nearly identicle performance. Some say 46 may ride a touch better but with a repower the 45 is Faster with less keel. I've ran many miles on both and ride is very much the same BUT, if Cockpit size is a concern the 45 has a Longer Cockpit with MUCH more room between the Back of the Chair and the Tackle Center. This is the main reason I bought the 45, I would have been happy with either depending on the deals out there at the time but Leaned toward the 45 because I prefered the larger Cockpit.

Tony

Last month we fished in the Keys for 4 days with 9 people on board, 2 of which were kids my 7 year old Son and 5 year old Daughter. Not once did we feel cramped while fishing and that was with 2 additional deck chairs in the cockpit. Granted not everyone is in the cockpit at once very often but when we would school the Dolphin behind the boat we had 4 to 5 people casting to them at one time.

Tony

 

[capttonyf]

Last month we fished in the Keys for 4 days with 9 people on board, 2 of which were kids my 7 year old Son and 5 year old Daughter. Not once did we feel cramped while fishing and that was with 2 additional deck chairs in the cockpit. Granted not everyone is in the cockpit at once very often but when we would school the Dolphin behind the boat we had 4 to 5 people casting to them at one time.

Tony

Below are two pictures of 46 cockpits. But the 52 and 55 are Huge 150+Sq ft. I beieve the 45 is 135+ and the 46 is like 120 to 125 sq ft

Tony

 

[CTdave]

Have you considered a 50c?
I have a '94 with 12v183 MTUs. Cruise 27kts @ 1900 rpm & burn approx. 55 per hr.
2000rpm gets 30kts but bumps up to just over approx. 62gph. I've never calculated the burn at wot which is 2400
LOVE the boat!!!!!