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Have Fuel Cost Caused You To Change Plans Or Habits?

Cant see how price controll of domestic oil will cause a shortage. Doubt oil companies would cut production and make lesser profits. Also Tax incentives would have to be given to these companies to promote production and exploration. I think a win win situation can be reached.
 
I think they'd just shut 'em down and wait. All the while selling us oil from outside sources that they can make more profit on. Remember, these are multinational corporations with oil fields all over the world.
 
I dont know if Mexico or Canada can easily increase production. I know We cant without drilling for more and that takes time. The saudi's can easily increas production, they are pumping but a fraction of what they can. Bush was looking for a quick temp fix to get opec to increase production to increas supply and drive prices back or at least keep them under controll. These bum countries are enjoying the f ing they are giving us and the rest of the world.

If Bush wants a quick and temp fix then put on price controlls on domestic oil and make it impossible to export it. Cap at 40 to 50/ bbrl and they will still be making a boat load of money. Give incentives for exploration and for converting difficutult supplies like shale etc. We need a quick fix to slow the out of controll prices of fuel , food etc. The next thing is to gear the country to concervation and REAL alternative energy sources. Some solutions may be drastic such as slamming the door on auto industry and forcing them to quit the power and performance vehicles and gear 100% to economy. That doest mean make large displacement engine that is governed down so that purchaser can simply alter it and turn it back to performance.

In this case free enterprise is killing the public. This is where the gov needs to step in. They dont need to sensor our radio, tv , publications etc but need to controll the very items that the public depends on , food, energy, water.

I believe oil companies are a Monopoly, they produce a homogenous product that the whole country depends on. THere is no real competition therefore government regulation is the only real solution.

In other words you want goverment to take control of the oil bussiness that will work about as well as the things they control now. You can't have it both ways you can't expect to enjoy all the products that are available to us at reasonable prices thanks to free enterprize then turn into a dictator when it doesn't go your way get real. Your kind of thinking would put an end to free enterprize and turn us into something like the USSR was or Cuba.

There is a roll for goverment in this but it's not price control or windfall profits tax. There is lots of un tapped oil in this country but turning it over to existing companies would acomplish almost nothing. All they would be able to do is ship it over seas cause we simply don't have the refining capacity to handle it here.

If our goverment looked at this problem the same way a bussiness person looks at things the solutions would be obvious. We need to reduce the price of oil in this country so reach out to existing oil companies or those intrested in starting new ones and make a deal. The untapped oil in the ground belongs to the american people so throw out an offer to go get it at a fixed profit and with the condition it's sold right here in this country not on the world market. Then make a deal for a 30 year fixed tax structure to build some new refineries. All they have to do is use the tools they have and fair solutions will be on the horizon.

Brian
 
"our" oil in the ground is worthless until someone spends the money to discover it, drill it and builds the infrastructure to transport it.

The evil oil companies do own oil wells, however there are many privately owned wells here in the USA, a large quantity of our supply comes from oil wells owned by national oil companies like ARAMCO in Saudi Arabi, other countries. The oil companies do not and cannot control the price of crude coming out of the ground. The price is set by the demand from every interested nation. Everyone better start paying attention. 300 million "Americans", that is you and me, have enjoyed little competion for the duration of our lives to date, for the available oil supplies. THIS HAS NOW CHANGED! 2,600,000,000 people in China and India are now demanding a share of the available energy supply. They are filling up moped and motorcycles, and cars are becoming available so things will get worse. Americans make up only 4.5% of the worlds population, but we consume 40% of the oil. Oil is sold to the highest bidder, period.

There are plenty of oil resources, tar sands, shale oil, and coal. The difference is the cost of extraction. America has very little cheap to extract resources left, the producing fields around the world are low cost of extraction. The other issue driving world prices is certain grades of oil are very difficult to refine. For example, Venezuela (Chavez the nutbag) produces only a few percent of its' total production in light sweet crude, easy to refine anywhere in the world. The other 98% or so production is heavy sour crude. The only place on the planet where it can be refined is in an Exxon refinery in Lousiana that Citgo and Exxon jointly own. So I laugh my ass off when Chavez threatens to cut America off from his oil supply. The reality is that without us he has no customers for his oil.

America needs to wake up and realize that we are not alone in this world, and we must have a defined energy plan in order to survive and keep even a remote resemblance to our way of life.

You want a drastic change in your life, then go ahead and put the government in control of the oil industry. You will be riding a bicycle within a year.

Leftist and isolationist propaganda is not reality. Sounds simple but it is anything but simple. Unless we start making clear steps to find solutions and make changes for the future, then we will be living "Mad Max" in the next 20 years. World population is 6,600,000,000 people and climbing. Oil is food, we can have a major dieoff occur around the world due to shortages of food. We are heading towards the perfect storm. World food production is dependent upon oil and weather, the population is beyond the earth's natural ability to suppot life (natural estimates without oil, is about 2.5 billion people), oil has allowed us to overshoot by 4 billion people without a major dieoff. The likelyhood of this occuring increases as we approach the situation where any disruption in oil supply or weather will create huge food shortages, and then you will see survival of the fittest go into effect.
 
Maybe if we did not send our manufacturing and tech jobs to India and china, they would not be buying oil, gas and diesel.
 
Maybe if we did not send our manufacturing and tech jobs to India and china,

Now I can FULLY relate to that.... A lot of the "support depts" I call within AT&T go to India.... You know it's happening when the you call a help desk and get a LONG RING... then this voice comes on.... "hello, how may I help you, ,my name is BOB, who am I talking to?"......(YOU put the accent in)..

I always answer "This is Ismal"........
 
Maybe if we did not send our manufacturing and tech jobs to India and china, they would not be buying oil, gas and diesel.


If we export the job we also export the purchasing power we as a country once had.
 
Had this discussion on the dock yesterday. The consensus was that the price of fuel would not affect anything. BUT, none of the folks involved (myself included) are long range cruisers. Most said they stay within 30NM of the marina which, on the Chesapeake, will provide years of "new" cruising experiences.

On the other hand, there are boats in the marina, according to long-time residents, that haven't moved or even started in 5 years! I was told a story where a boat was being sold and the surveyor told the owners that he'd have to put water in the toilets to see if they actually worked. The owners responded that they'd rather he didn't because they never used them. Of course, he did (put water in); they didn't (work)!
 
People say it won't to make a difference, But the traffic to the Bahamas has slowed way down and a lot of the rresort marinas that had wait lists are offering deals now. It will cause a lot of cruisers to become dock queens. I used to do my summer vacation travel from my house in Madeira beach down to Key West then up the east coast, through lake okeechobee then back up the west coast stopping along the way. This year I am only going as far as Captiva and staying longer at each stop.
 
People will still go boating, you just won't get as far on the same dollars.

Even if our economy wasn't going in the crapper, the bahamas boat traffic would still be affected by the high cost of fuel, the change in fishing regulations, higher cruising fees, and the cost of staying at some of the new marinas, such as chub, and the general bad attitude too often encountered when times are good. Since the Bahamas is tied to the dollar, their energy costs have gone up and you will start seeing blackouts since everything runs on generators. Increasing costs will put further pressure on the tourist trade adding to their pain.

People will adapt, but it will take some time, and for the Bahamas, if Gringo traffic is down and the fish stocks, lobster and conch don't recover who can they blame? It will of course be good for people's attitudes down there to be reminded which side their bread is buttered on, I like going to the Exumas because people there are actually glad you came to visit.
 
Since my goal is to get a Hat in the near future it has somewhat changed my view on whether said boat even has engines. I could be happy enough with a 50 foot plus and its just a dock queen. I have seen listings of such here and there, otherwise the closest real deal is at least over $80K, I really prefer not to be in debt for over a couple of years at the most.
So I would say that if there was a deal to get any boat regardless if it had running engines or not would be my parameter as because now it would be too expensive to motor around even with a pair of 53naturals at lower rpm. What I am seeing also is that this is similar to the automotive SUV scenario, people are parking the gas guzzlers and going smaller.

I have even looked at houseboats but the prices on them have gone up. Me being a diesel mechanic I could very well find a pair of the latest Cummins ISM or 3406 Cats that are electronically fuel governed and re-engine myself, I do that where I work all the time on a fleet of concrete mixers, basically removing old Detroits and installing newer motors. I was thinking that I would be better off going motor sail or just a sailboat but then I realized I am missing the whole point of this and thats by just not buying the fuel at that cost, be it ethanol or bio diesel I can accumulate enough over time at low cost for the infrequent cruising. I know how to make an ethanol still and of course bio diesel can be made from many different stocks.
 
Bought off-road today for $4.23 today delivered to the quarry. The driver said the the price has gone up 10 cents per day for the last few days. That's not good.
 
Last Friday my supplier said off roads diesel was 4.00/ gal with a 500 gal minimum.
 
Last Friday my supplier said off roads diesel was 4.00/ gal with a 500 gal minimum.

Like I was told, it's gone up at about 10 cents/day this week and I buy alot more than 500gal at a time. :(
 
I'm amazed at how fuel at a station/marina can go up when it's just sitting in the tank with no new deliveries. Seems like that should be illegal but I guess it's no different than raising the prices on plywood when a hurricane is approaching. It is, IMHO, equally dishonest.

I have to admit that despite my earlier views that fuel prices don't affect our particular boat use, I'm changing my opinion. The whole thing is starting to P1ss me off NOT because we can't afford it but because I'm starting to feel like a sucker. I don't like that feeling.

I told my wife last night on the phone (she's in Bogota) that we should consider selling the boat because I no longer wish to participate in
sucker-izing myself. Her advice was, "We love the boat, calm down!" I'm working on calming down but 7 am is a little early for a trip to the mountain.

That would be Mt. Gay...
 
At least you make money on yours.

Unfortunately I don't sell diesel at the store. But I sure do burn alot of it at the quarry. The problem is that it's hard to pass on this cost. We've been forced to finally raise our prices, but our margins are still at all time lows and sales are down as well. I guess a new boat is out of the question :(
 
Mike I am with you all the way. In my case it is a financial hardship to keep filling it up as well as a mental stresser knowing I am getting screwed. I cant even enjoy driving over to the boat and working on her as I use to. Now I have to re-tank her in order to even consider using her again. We have full tanks now and can get one more fishing trip, possibly 2 if we go out and bottom fish.

Oil is expected to hit 200.00/ brl. and soon. My guess is that we will be paying 7-8/gallon at the pump. At those prices and the fact that personal income is not increasing much if any, I can see the marine industry surviving at least in its present form. Those of you who are blessed with greater than normal income and wealth will not be effected much but guys like me will be put under the bus or mabe in the bus. Just as most of you boating has been part of my life since I was born and now I can see the end comming and that is very depressing to me. It will hurt for a while but I will get over it. Bought a Harley as a cheeper hobby.

Here is what I want to know, What is the reaction in the corp offices of the oil companies everytime oil hits a new record. Well they are getting richer so i guess everday is a party.
 
Quote from cnn story:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices have doubled in the past 12 months, surging nearly $8 a barrel in the past four days alone.

Big investment funds are putting money into oil futures as if Saudi Arabia's spiggots will run dry tomorrow. At the same time, the supply of oil and the demand for it hasn't changed much in the last year.

So it raises the question: Is $130 oil nothing more than one big bubble?

The answer depends on who you ask.

"A bubble is where supply overwhelms demand," said Stephen Leeb, an investment manager who has authored two books on oil scarcity.

Leeb pointed to previous bubbles - like the tech bubble in the late 1990s where companies with zero earnings issued massive amounts of stock, and the real estate market a decade later where home builders went on a frenzy, overshooting the number of homes the market could absorb.

"But unless I'm missing something here, I don't see any massive increase in the supply of oil," he said.

Like many in the not-a-bubble camp, Leeb pointed to surging demand from places like China - some estimates see auto ownership there surging 30-fold in the next few decades - coupled with dwindling supplies as the main reasons behind pricey oil.

Thursday, the International Energy Agency gave advance warning that its previous forecast for supply and demand remaining in pleasant equilibrium over the next two decades was flawed. Its new projections, due in November, will say supplies may fall 10 percent short of demand, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal.

Leeb said Russia was already seeing a drop in production, and there's little evidence Saudi Arabia could increase production even if it wanted to.

"If the two biggest oil producers in the world can no longer increase production, that's a catastrophe, not a bubble," he said.

Others say there's no way $130 oil is justified.

"This thing has to turn around, it's insanity," said Peter Beutel, an oil analyst at the consultancy Cameron Hanover. "Ultimately we'll see a huge collapse in prices."

Beutel didn't know when that collapse would come, but he predicted it will be within weeks or months, not years.

But he didn't know just what might bring it about - perhaps the Federal Reserve increasing interest rates or a big drop in consumption as people worldwide can no longer afford to fuel their cars or heat their homes.

"If these prices stick, you may see whole neighborhoods where people abandon their homes," he said predicting that in the Northeast U.S. it will cost $5000 to heat a home unless prices fall.

Many analysts said supply and demand justifies expensive oil - maybe $90 or $100 a barrel - but $130 is just too much.

"To see something run this far and this fast, you see it leveraged by financial players," said Neal Dingmann, senior energy analyst at Dahlman Rose & Co., a New York-based energy investment boutique. "The direction is corerct, the speed isn't."

Dingman said demand is slowing in the U.S., and the Chinese numbers are inflated because they assume the government will continue to subsidize fuel, which he feels they won't do.

Over the next five or ten years, he said it would be possible to see a return to $70 or $80 oil by gradually increasing supply - both in OPEC countries and non-OPEC countries like Brazil, as well as aggressive measures to limit demand like increasing fuel efficiency standards.

Robert Kaufmann, director of Boston University's Center for Energy and Environmental Studies, also says oil is overpriced by about $30.

He says current markets are adequately supplied, and traders are pricing in future predictions of surging demand.

"To me, that's a bubble," he said.

But Kaufmann still thinks oil should be priced at around $100. He says supplies just aren't growing, and the only way to bring prices down to the $100 range is to reduce consumption.

"Even when that bubble pops, you're not looking at $60, $70 oil," he said.

First Published: May 23, 2008: 4:01 AM EDT



(What they dont mention here is that if there is substantial increase in supply and the price starts to drop, Suppliers will simply cut production to keep prices up. Hugo Chavez will go on rampage with anti American slurs, Iran will chime in with anti american and build fear of embargo's and supply cuts. Face it a big part of why the prices are where they are is because of all the fear these guys have built,

Steve)
 
I'm amazed at how fuel at a station/marina can go up when it's just sitting in the tank with no new deliveries. Seems like that should be illegal but I guess it's no different than raising the prices on plywood when a hurricane is approaching. It is, IMHO, equally dishonest.

I have to admit that despite my earlier views that fuel prices don't affect our particular boat use, I'm changing my opinion. The whole thing is starting to P1ss me off NOT because we can't afford it but because I'm starting to feel like a sucker. I don't like that feeling.

I told my wife last night on the phone (she's in Bogota) that we should consider selling the boat because I no longer wish to participate in
sucker-izing myself. Her advice was, "We love the boat, calm down!" I'm working on calming down but 7 am is a little early for a trip to the mountain.

That would be Mt. Gay...

So then If you had purchased say 50,000 Gals of diesel 15 years ago @ say 60 cents per gallon. You would sell it today for around 70 cents? Just about all goods are sold on a replacment cost basis a much more valid complaint would be why suppliers normally don't lower prices when they go down untill they sell what they have on hand?

It's simply amazing and very disapointing that none of our leaders are even talking about securing this countries future. I say start extracting the oil we have here look to new or exsiting companies and let them go after it. But make a good deal for the rights to the oil. You do it at a fixed profit and the oil does not go on the world market it stays right here in this country where we need it. If our goverment even started talking about that oil prices would drop tomorrow. Then start something on the scale of the Manhatten Project looking for alternatives.

Brian
 

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